1080P
periodoc -- Sun, 04/09/2006 - 07:43
I am redoing my house and will be investing in at least 3 new HD TV's for my home including a media room display. However, before I make this investment I would like to know if I should wait for true 1080p plasma displays to hit the market? Will there be 1080p content to view any time soon? Will HD DVD be in 1080p? Is there a real difference in the quality of the picture between 768 and 1080p. I don't want to have to buy all new epuipment in a year to keep up with the technology. Your help is appreciated. Thanks.
All content, design, and layout are Copyright © 1999 - 2011 NextScreen. All Rights Reserved.
Reproduction in whole or part in any form or medium without specific written permission is prohibited.
Reproduction in whole or part in any form or medium without specific written permission is prohibited.
1080p content is here now with Blu-ray; the first generation of HD DVD players output only 1080i or 720p, though I'm told that future generations will output 1080p. (As a side note, don't use the 720p output from the Toshiba HD-A1 or HD-XA1; it looks lousy compared with the 1080i output, even on a 720p display.)
As for the difference in quality between 1080p and 768p (or 720p), it depends on the size of the screen and how close you are sitting. At a seating distance of 10 feet, you need a 70-inch or larger screen to see a difference between 720p and 1080p. If the screen is smaller at that distance, your eyes cannot discern the increased resolution of 1080p over 720p, so there is no point in spending the extra money on a 1080p display.
Scott Wilkinson
Video Editor
The Perfect Vision
Any suggestion for a good 2 meter 1080p /HDMI-HDMI cable?
I've used Ultralink DVI and HDMI cables to great effect. My current system includes a 5-meter DVI cable that works flawlessly. I must admit that I've not yet tried to put 1080p through it, but I plan to in the next couple of days when I give the Samsung Blu-ray player a spin in my home system. (I've been reviewing the player mostly in the new TPV video lab, using the HDMI cable that came with it to see how well it works.) I'll post again in a few days when I've had some experience with the Ultralink cable and 1080p.
Scott Wilkinson
Video Editor
The Perfect Vision
Belkin makes some good stuff too, and reasonably priced.
Barry Willis
Hey Scott , Thank you for your quick response. please keep me post in regards to your test result of the Samsung Blu-ray player with HDMI cables. In your opinions, Blu-ray & HD DVD, who do you think is going to win the battle? Have you had a chance to try out any HD DVD?
Tyler
Thanks Barry, I am kinda not sure if I should try Belkin. I am actully thinking about trying out either Monster cable D400 or M1000.
Tyler
I've done some serious testing on the monster cable. Picture source Pioneer DV989i and Sharp 56DR650 rear projection television. The tragic conclusion is that this cable does not support 720p or 1080i resoulutions well. The brand cheated me.
My Next Step is going to Ultralink HDMI cables and some of my hi-fi nerds friends suggest me to try Neotech.
Maybe I should have listen to Scott in the beginning. Well.. live and learn.... BTW, I've heard about HDMI cables losing their signal at long lengths like 15m, is it right?
In general, it is possible to lose signal integrity over long distances. However, Ultralink assures me that their 15m cables do not. I'm about to find out for sure, when they supply some for the new video lab. That might not happen for a couple of weeks, but when it does, I'll be sure to let you know how it goes.
I've not heard of Neotech; let us know if you try it.
Regarding the previous question regarding 1080p through an Ultralink cable, I was mistaken that I had one to try that with. I'll be getting one soon, and I'll let you know about that, too.
Scott Wilkinson
Video Editor
The Perfect Vision
...
"The DVD player's program for the output quality of progressive signals"? I don't understand; I've never seen a DVD player with a setting that controls the output quality of progressive signals. Why would anyone want anything but the best possible quality? Can you please elaborate?
Thanks,
Scott Wilkinson
Video Editor
The Perfect Vision
I read and rely on your great The Perfect Vision from page to page. My only complaint is that I wish you published 13 issues a year rather than ten!
I purchased the HP 65 inch 1080P DLP HDTV based on your recomendation/review. It is absolutely superb! Thank you! Question: Does it automatically upscale 720P and 1080i sources to 1080P?
Now, I am considering HD/Blue Ray DVD players and I am confused about true1080P sources for my HP HDTV? From your reviews and articles I gather that the new Toshiba HD DVD players do not support 1080P, only 720P and 1080i. Also, the new Samsung Blue Ray DVD player does support 1080P, technically, but it is really 1080i input upscaled to 1080P output.
If so, there remains no true 1080P sources available through HDMI 1.1 Interface. Is that true? I do know some 1080P material is available from a PC/Internet via HDMI or DVI...
Please educate me and keep up your great work...
Yes, the HP scales all incoming signals to 1080p because that is its native resolution. Regarding 1080p sources, both HD DVD and Blu-ray store movies on the disc at 1080p/24 (that is, 1080p at 24 frames per second), but they output 1080i/60 (1080i at 60 fields per second); Blu-ray players can also output 1080p/60 (1080p at 60 frames per second), and HD DVD players will eventually have this capability as well. For 1080i output, the 1080p/24 content is converted to 1080p/60, then interlaced to 1080i/60. This involves the use of 3:2 pulldown, which introduces a bunch of artifacts that must be compensated for in the video processor. It would be much better to output 1080p/24 (or 1080p/48 or 72, playing each frame two or three times), but this requires a display that can accept such a signal, of which there are very few at the moment (Pioneer’s latest displays being one example). HDMI 1.1 and later can convey 1080p at any frame rate.
Scott Wilkinson
Video Editor
The Perfect Vision
Scott,
I'm a little confused. It seems that regardless of whether the 1080p/24 content of a Blu-ray or HD DVD is output at 1080i/60 or 1080p/60 from the player, it will look virtually identical on a 1080p display, as long as the display deinterlaces the image correctly. In other words, the 3:2 pulldown must be done for both the interlaced and progressive scan outputs as long as there is no 1080p/24 (or 48 or 72) output capability, right?
So, is the ability for a 1080p display to accept a 1080p input, as long as that input signal must be 1080p/60, of little importance? Do any of the upcoming Blu-ray or HD DVD players have 1080p/24 output capability?
Thanks,
Don
By George, I think you've got it! A display's ability to accept 1080p/60 is of little importance as long as it can deinterlace 1080i/60 correctly.
A 1080i output must be 1080i/60, so the player must introduce 3:2 pulldown, in which some fields are duplicated with no corresponding field from the same original frame. That signal must then be deinterlaced to 1080p/60, either by the player or display. The only difference between them is, which one does a better job of deinterlacing? If both the player and display do a good job deinterlacing, there should be no difference in image quality between sending a 1080i/60 and 1080p/60 signal. In both cases, 3:2 pulldown must be added to convert 24 frames per second to 60 fields per second and then compensated for by whichever device is doing the deinterlacing.
That deinterlacing process can be performed in one of two ways: motion-adaptive or inverse telecine. Motion-adaptive deinterlacing is much more common: ideally, it "weaves" portions of the image that are not moving much and "bobs" portions of the image that are fast moving, interpolating information between the active field lines. In inverse telecine, the "extra" unpaired fields in a 1080i/60 signal are discarded and only paired fields are used to reconstruct complete frames. The signal might include each frame twice or three times (i.e., a refresh rate of 48 or 72Hz), or, more likely, it will include one frame twice, the next three times, the next twice, etc. (a refresh rate of 60Hz).
I don't know of any Blu-ray players that do inverse telecine, and only a few displays that apply it to 1080i signals. It should be easy for players to do it: simply send each 1080p/24 frame twice or three times (or alternate frames two and three times). I encourage player and display manufacturers to implement inverse telecine, which is superior to motion-adaptive deinterlacing in my view.
As far as I know, only the Pioneer Blu-ray player can output 1080p/24 (actually, I think it's 1080p/48 or 72, which is still fine, since each frame is simply sent two or three times). However, few displays other than Pioneer's can accept a 1080p/24/48/72 signal. I'll have more to say about this after CEDIA next week.
Scott Wilkinson
Video Editor
The Perfect Vision
Thanks, Scott. Your explanations are very helpful. Now, the question come down how does one find out whether a given player or display does an acceptable job of deinterlacing?
Don