TAS at RMAF: Jonathan Valin on Loudspeakers Priced at $20,000 and Above
Jonathan Valin on Loudspeakers Priced at $20,000 and Above
Right on the heels of Robert’s declaration that the sound was less colored at this year’s RMAF, I’m here to say that, in my neck of the woods, the sound at RMAF was a mixed bag. There were several standouts and a handful of extraordinary demos, but an awful lot of the speakers sounded alike—very good for the most part, but not exceptional. This could be the result of similar drivers, similar crossovers, similar enclosures, or it could be the result of the similarity of the rooms (particularly the smaller rooms, which tended to suck out the bass and brighten up the treble), or it could be the result of the lousy electricity (which last year simply went off briefly). It was probably a combination of all three factors. In any event, this wasn’t the best-sounding RMAF I’ve been to. Nonetheless, it was interesting, cheery, and fun. The best part, frankly, was seeing my colleagues and friends—but then that’s always the best part of trade shows. I was also buoyed by the number of folks who stopped to tell me how much they like our magazine. (And when you’re carrying around fifteen pounds of LPs, CDs, and iPads, you can use some buoying.)
As usual I apologize in advance to any exhibitors I overlooked. I did my very best to cover the field. But it is a big field. And there are always going to be rooms that I miss.
I’ve listed the speakers roughly in the order that I heard them—not in order of merit.
As luck would have it the very first room I listened in (before the show even officially started) was one of the $27k Wilson Sasha rooms (a larger room with none of the bass-suckout and soundstage-constricting problems of the shoebox-sized closets that many others showed in at the Marriott). Here the Sashas were being driven by VTL electronics fed by Peter McGrath’s mastertapes. I have to say that Luke Manley has certainly improved his electronics. His amps and preamps were always rich and beautiful sounding with super-ripe midrange and midbass, but the ones I heard with the Sashas also seemingly added speed and detail and control I hadn’t heard before (or maybe that was the Sashas). The speakers themselves sounded gorgeous. Breathtakingly so. Indeed if I gave an award for sheer beauty of sound, they would’ve won. Of course, in spite of what my best friend and colleague in this business recently said in an editorial, I don’t believe that beauty and truth really are a single thing—in audio or anything else. (I’m with T.S. Eliot on this one.) I thought the Sashas sounded great—particularly on Peter’s superb recordings of a Schubert lieder and a Shostakovich Prelude—but like the real thing? Perhaps in an idealized—what some people call “musical”—sense. But, to me, they were fundamentally a good deal prettier than life, like a martini with a cherry and a little umbrella in it. For many listeners, even perhaps for most as this show report demonstrates, this ravishing voluptuousness is more than sufficient; it is the sound they want. But I prefer my music neat. Still, throwing all absolute sound biases aside, there was no denying that the presentation was breathtakingly beautiful and a joy to listen to. And thus the Sashas (in the VTL room) become my first contenders for Best of Show. (Just as an aside, I think Peter McGrath is one of the greatest audio engineers on the planet. And I also think that he’s had an effect on the sources that people show with. His mastertapes were so superior to the CD players and analog rigs that most people used as sources that it gave Wilson demos an undeniable leg up at RMAF and CES. When The Tape Project tapes came along, a few brave souls started turning to reel-to-reel, in part I think, to compensate for the McGrath advantage. Soon the trickle of tape players turned into a bit of a trend, and at this show into a mini-flood. Personally, I love it. But it also makes sense from a sonic/business point of view, given Peter’s consistent ability to produce some of the best source material ever played back at a trade show—or anywhere else.)
Jonathan Tinn’s $27k Evolution Acoustics MMMiniTwo is essentially a two-way MMMiniOne on top of a MMMiniSub, with the MiniOne ceramic mid/woof and ribbon tweeter housed in a beautifully finished transmission-line enclosure and the MiniSub ceramic-oval subwoofer in an equally beautifully finished acoustic-suspension enclosure. The speaker was driven by DartZeel electronics. The sound was downright lovely on a Mozart Violin Concerto (played back on a reel-to-reel tape deck, by the bye), with beautiful timbre, nice delicacy of texture, and none of the heaviness and darkness that have weighted down previous EA demos. I thought there may have been just a very slight edge in upper mids, but overall this was the best showing of an Evolution Acoustics speaker I’ve experienced thus far at a trade show. One of the better sounds at RMAF.
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Comments
Who's the dood on p7 pretending to be Andy Payor ?
haha
Sorry about this--I didn't write the caption. The dude in the picture is Andy from Win Analog (which was supplying the amplification and preamplification).
My apologies on the Rockport caption blooper. Never having met Mr. Payor personally, I'm afraid I misinterpreted Jon's label for the photo when the article was being posted.
I've since removed the "Andy Payor" reference from the caption.
Best,
Chris Martens
Chris Martens
Editor, Avguide.com/Playback/The Perfect Vision
Jv
did i read correctly...was that IPAD my friend........welcome to the real world in real-time (lol)
You did read correctly, zead. I simply got tired of being unable to read handwritten notes scribbled in often-dark hotel rooms, so I tried the experiment of using the iPAD and its keyboard. The added weight aside, it worked out well.
Jon, I am sure that you meant the Avalon Indra. If not the prices of the Isis has dropped significantly :). Great report by the way.
Janpe,
Thank you. You're right about the Indra, of course. I'll fix the text.
Jon
Jon,
You're a master with your ears and your words!
Reading your report is like having been there without the enduring the fatique that comes with three days of auditioning. And, of course, without the fun of meeting friends and audio-companions, but that's something you can never put into writing.
Thanks for "putting your pen where your ears are" :-)
Marcel
Marcel,
Thank you for the lovely compliment.
Jon
JV,
Nice report! I'll concur with an earlier post that asserts your ability as a writer contributes greatly to the quality of your reviews, online and on paper. I really liked the TAD CR-1/Walker and Sasha/VTL rooms also though when the Magico room finally had enough space for us on Sunday, the sound seemed a bit constricted by the room. I was impressed, but not involved. I preferred the Q5 when I heard it in Boston. I think the Nola speaker model is called the METRO. It is a good value.
Let me also say that the GEC gathering Saturday night was a real treat. Thanks.
This may be a bit off topic, but could you here or in another forum compare the sound of the TAD CR-1 to the Magico Mini II?
Peter,
Thank you. I enjoyed the GEC gathering, too. It was lively and fun. You're right about the name of the Nola speakers, BTW (I've made this correction, among several others). The sound in the Q5 room was a little constricted in width on the CD material i played back, but this was obviously a room issue (as it was in most of those shoe-box-sized Marriott rooms). Honestly, have you ever heard a Magico speaker that wasn't a phenomenal soundstager? You just can't park them--or any full-range mulitway--too close to sidewalls.
I will in fact compare the TAD CR-1s to the Mini IIs when I comment on the CR-1s later this year, although you can get the essence of what I think at http://www.avguide.com/blog/the-best-loudspeaker-i-ve-heard-the-magico-q5. Look for the question from the redoubtable WSLam about the CR-1s versus the Mini IIs.
Jon
Jon,
I did find that and read it. Thank you and I look forward to reading your future observations after you have had more time with the CR-1 in your room. Wslam is indeed redoubtable and I have exchanged many emails with him about my Mini IIs and Pass XA.5 amps. He has been most helpful.
Jon,
Do you recall which room did you hear the Kaiser Acoustic Kawero speaker? They were shown in two different rooms at the RMAF and I could be wrong but my guess is that you did not hear them on the same room that Robert did.
FAvalos,
I heard them in Room 550.
Jon
Jon,
That explain your impression of the Kawero, Robert heard them at room 477 where the Kaiser Kawero speakers were driven by GTE electronics and all connected with armonico cables from Fono Acustica.
FA,
Aha! Thanks for the clarification!
Since I didn't hear them sound particularly impressive and Robert did, I would presume that the GTE setup was markedly superior and that it was not the speakers but the ancillaries and the room that were causing the problems I heard. Therefore, my conclusion still stands: I'd go with Robert (and you, FAvalos) on this one.
Jon
Thanks for the Win Analog mention on the Rockport Mira Grand II's, Jonathan. We were very pleased with the Win Analog/Rockport Mira Grand mating, and like to think that helped you form your opinion of these as one of the top 2 speakers a the show.
John Dark
Sales Director, Win Analog
I love seeing and reading about all of this great gear still being available to people in a day and age when we listen to music in such a different way than we used to just 20-30 years ago when I first got hooked. I view this modern technology with mixed feelings... it's GREAT in some ways and deplorable in others. I say the HELL with mp3 and all of this crap readily available on the shelves at the local Best Buy store and so many others. I miss my favorite audio hangouts that vanished a few years ago when taken over by the the big box stores that offered inferior product for less money and despise those companies that once stood proud while offering up superior products, even if I couldn't afford them. Truth told, I still can't afford to even go listening to loudspeakers such as these being shown here. That's OK by me, however, as I was able to score a pair of beautiful condition KEF 105/2 Reference Speakers a while back that were my "dream speaker" as a kid, and today they sound just as good as I remember them sounding all those years ago. While I wonder how they might stack up against such marvelous speakers as these I know that my budgetary limits have been reached. I am very, very happy with what I have here. I DO envy those that have deeper pockets than I do. I'd be willing to take a listen if there were any kind of reason to do so.
"And In The End, The Love You Take Is Equal To The Love You Make"
papa,
I'm with you, buddy. On every single point you made. To hell with MP3s, indeed. (Frankly, not so long ago I would've said to hell with digital altogether but in the last few years digital's gotten a whole lot better.) I can't afford a single speaker I reported on, either. But some folks can, and, impossible dream or not, it sure is fun and interesting to listen to these statement products. Stay happy with what you've got. It may be the hardest lesson in audio--or in life--but in the long term it's undoubtedly the most satisfying.
Jon
Hello Jon,
I couldn' t attend this year so it was fun reading your comments. Would you mind providing a snapshot of your 2ch system as it currently stands? In your comments you referred to your home system several times when trying to draw comparisons to what you were hearing at the RMAF so it might be somewhat enlightening to understand what your home reference is. Thanks in advance.
So much music...so little time.
es,
Thanks.
I'll take a picture of my listening room for you after the Q5s arrive on Monday.
Jon
Pictures would be great. Actually by snapshot I meant the configuration as it currently stands. A description would suffice but pictures even better. thx.
So much music...so little time.
es,
My room is roughly 17 feet long and about 16 feet wide with 10.5 ceilings. The house we live in is old--built when Lincoln was president--so the exterior walls are very thick, multi-layer brick. The interior walls are plaster-and-lath. The floors are hardwood. Though its dimensions aren't particularly promising, the room sounds great--far better than the much larger (26 x 32 with 13-foot cathedral ceilings) room I used to listen in. I think this is largely because of the incredibly beefy construction of mid-nineteenth-century houses. For example, you wouldn't think I would get very low bass in this room, but, because of the sheer solidity of the walls (which unlike today's thinner walls don't let bass "pass through" them), bass response is actually boosted a bit in the 20-40Hz range.
Jon
Jon,
BTW, can I have the M5s? :-)
So much music...so little time.
Heh-heh-heh!
I'm afraid the M5s went back to Magico a year or so ago. If I still had 'em, I'd keep 'em.
What have you been listening to since??
So much music...so little time.
TAD's CR-1 Compact References and Morel's The Fat Lady. (I've also got MartinLogan CLXes and Maggie 1.7s in another room.)
Regarding the CLXs, I have always been a ML fan owning 3 different prs .over the years and when the CLXs came out, it was a foregone conclusion that I would own a pair. I listened extensively at the dealer's room, a very good room I might add, with MAC electronics, the same I have here at home, and although they were fast as lightning and extremely revealing as are most ML speakers, I found the depth of soundstage strangely lacking. With vocals it reminded me of the Wizard of Oz scene where his face was projected floating huge in front of Dorothy but very two-dimensional. And of course the constricted low end was another issue. I went a different direction with box speakers. But having said that, I could still be content owning a pair if for no other reason the aesthetic. I love the look. One thing ML buyers need to consider is that the panels have a 10 or 12 year life according to the guys at the factory. That's how long my Aerius i's lasted and having done the replacement here at home...not a big deal at all...they sound as good as ever in my HT. ML are really cool speakers regardless of their limitations.
So much music...so little time.
So Jon, any comments regarding my impressions of the CLXs?
So much music...so little time.
Me thinks the moderator is asleep at the proverbial switch..
So much music...so little time.
es,
I reviewed the CLX in Issue 190, so you can read what I think there, but in a nutshell I agree that the CLX's chief weakness is a lack of low bass (it only plays down to about 55Hz, although its plays very well down to its lower limit, without any of the upper bass/lower midrange suckout of the CLS). Like all electrostats, it images without quite the same body, weight,, large-scale-dynamic range, and dimensionality of a well-designed dynamic loudspeaker; on the other hand, it has resolution and speed and overall realsim at lower volumes that no dynamic speaker I've heard or reviewed (thus far) can touch. Indeed, it sets a standard for reproducing piano and pianissimo passages with lifelike clarity at lifelike levels. I thought its staging was very good and did not experience outsized imaging with the ancillary gear that I use. On the contrary, the CLX's images had unusually realistic in-the-room-with-you presence. If you can live with its limits in bass extension and dynamic range, it is, IMO, high among the most lifelike loudspeaker on the market.
Jon
I agree that it truly is something special but that perceived lack of soundstage depth is problematic. The CLX resolves better than any box speaker out there but as you say, the low register just isn't there. I wonder if the two dimensionality nature that I mentioned could be due to a missing bass foundation. I didn't hear them with a subwoofer so that could be part of the problem. I have learned that a 2ch system with subs properly dialed in gets the bass foundation right. The L/R speakers can be placed of optimal imaging/soundstage and the bass transducers likewise. I absolutely love the aesthetic of the CLX speaker and would love to love the sonics enough to own a pair but unfortunately since "it's all about the music" I must concede. I wonder how much it will cost to replace those 4 large panels in 10-12 years? That will surprise many CLX owners no doubt.
So much music...so little time.
Hi Jonathan!
I enjoyed your RMAF report (along with R. Harley’s, et al.). I always find it fascinating to compare what I heard to what other folks heard. Like the majority of attendees (I assume), I haven’t heard many of the individual components featured at the show, let alone these components as part of systems—and systems in rooms that are not necessarily conducive to good sound. That is, in most cases, it’s difficult for me to tell exactly what is affecting what in that I couldn’t definitely say that this particular speaker or that particular amp/preamp made THE difference. However, as always, I brought along LPs that I know well, so I could at least compare what I heard to what I know. Just a couple of comments . . .
A general observation I can make is that room/speaker matching is no less important at audio shows than it is at home. And one of the key impediments to achieving reasonable sound at shows is, in my opinion, the “too much speaker/too little room” syndrome. I know manufacturers and dealers want to show the biggest and best stuff, but shoehorning in, for example, the TAD 1s into a puny room is not likely to produce great sound no matter what the ancillary equipment (in the case of the large TADs, Walker and Technical Brain). And this system didn’t produce great sound, based on what I heard from my reference LPs (in my opinion, of course).
Another victim of big speaker/small room to my ears was the Win Analog/Rockport, where the speakers couldn’t have been more than six or seven feet from the listening chairs. Frankly, I’m completely baffled by your assessment of this room. I’ve heard Rockport speakers a number of times in less than ideal conditions and in every instance the sound was significantly better than what I heard in the Win Room. In fact, I have it from someone who knows that the “woofers out” positioning of the speakers—at least when I heard them—was not the preferred setup in small room. I should emphasize that my impression is certainly colored by the fact that the quality of the unfamiliar demo program material I heard was, in my opinion, neither musically interesting nor sonically distinguished (there wasn’t a turntable to play my reference LPs).
I was especially interested in your comments about the Magico Q5/Spectral room because, despite the relative audio press hysteria surrounding the Magico Q5s, I was more puzzled than impressed by what I heard. In particular, I found the sound to be reticent, for lack of a better word. Ultra fast, pure, and clean, but there was just something missing (could have been the room, of course). Now someone whose tastes differ from mine might find this performance extraordinarily accurate and satisfying; someone else might say “lifeless” (I heard both comments). After being unable to squeeze in the first two days, I was the sole (soul?) listener early Sunday and I had a fair amount of time to get a feel for the system. Again, my impression is based on source material that was unfamiliar and there wasn’t a turntable to play my reference LPs, but I must say that I heard better sound at the show from other, un-turntabled exhibits (the Evolution/DartZeel system you mentioned was one, the Venture/FM Acoustics was another—although the Venture speaker I liked best was the “Grand Ultimate" I heard on Sunday).
Whatever I might say about specific experiences, I love the RMAF and I hope you enjoy it as much as I do. I love its low-keyed-ness, I love the atmosphere, I love catching up with folks—friends, manufacturers, dealers—who are typically e-mail pals in a non-virtual environment, and I love hearing new and many times paradigm challenging stuff. It sure beats the dog snot out of CES! I’ve attended every RMAF but one and I’ll sure go again next year. Hope to see you there!
Darryl Lindberg
Great, detailed report - yours too Darryl!
Darryl,
I enjoyed your RMAF report.
Jon
Hi Jonathan,
Always enjoying reading your articles. Looking for a top of the line pair of speakers that are not too "large" (over 45" high). The new Vandersteen 7 looks like an excellent choice. Any others you think I should consider?