Magnepan MG 1.7: Unqualified Triumph
Alongside the Magico Q5, the Maggie MG 1.7--the successor to the speaker I have long considered to be the best buy in high-end audio, the Maggie MG 1.6--was the product I most looked forward to hearing at this year's CES. Unlike some folks, Maggie doesn't come out with a new improved model every year. In fact, it doesn't come out with new improved models every decade. Thus, the 1.7--Maggie's first "all-ribbon" (well, actually, all-quasi-ribbon) floorstander with quasi-ribbon bass, quasi-ribbon mid/tweet, quasi-ribbon super-tweeter, improved crossover (with higher-quality parts), and all-aluminum frame--was big news, especially considering that it costs a mere $100 more than the speaker it was replacing.
I am delighted but not a bit surprised to report that it is an unqualified success, both as a two-channel speaker and as a surround-sound speaker. (Maggie demo'd it as both with equal success.) Everything about the 1.7 is an improvement over the 1.6--and the 1.6 was anything but chopped liver. Here we have a $1995 speaker whose staging, focus, and low-level resolution are not just much better than that of its excellent predecessor but downright superb by any standard short of a CLX or an M5, with detailing in bass choirs that was so good it reminded me of the Maggie 1-Us (which had the most lifelike detail in the mid-to-upper bass I've ever heard). The 1.7s, at least driven by Bryston 28Bs, also have astonishing power in the low end, which seems to extend down to somewhere around 35-40Hz. When's the last time you heard a sub-$2k speaker reproduce not just the pitch and timbre but the genuine growl of an electric bass? And the genuine size of an electric bass? This one does!
Like the Magico Q5s, the 1.7s was a shade dark in balance (maybe this was the largish room it was in or the Brystons), but that didn't keep its top end from shining. This new Maggie has absolutely lovely treble (fully integrated with its mids and bass, BTW) and its high end did seem, as Maggie claimed, to have better dispersion than that of the 1.6s. I thought I detected a little added bite in the upper octaves in the room we listened in, but I'm not sure because I wasn't familiar with some of the music being played. Moreover, the bit of bite wasn't present on most cuts, so it might have been the digs (which were undamped) or the amps. I can tell you this with certainty: The 1.7 was wonderfully realistic on "Rainy Night in Georgia," reproducing Captain Luke's rumbly-grumbly voice with just the right about of bass and just the right about of baritone and genuinely lifelike presence.
In my opinion the 1.7 was clearly the most important introduction at this year's show, simply because it offers truly lifelike sound at a price that most of us can afford. No, it doesn't go as low as the bigger boys. No, it is not a Q5. But, brother, does it play well where it plays. So well, in fact, that It will be a strong contender for my Best of Show Award.
Comments
Well, I sure am excited! An actual new product from Magnepan-I can't wait to hear it.
As a continuing concert goer and audiophool, I have all Maggies in the surround.
The pairing with the Bryston was a good choice, yes the Maggies are $2K, perhaps a hundred less if your dealer loves you, but the amp has to have some old fashioned juice!
It doesn't necessarily have to be Bryston but a good 300+ watts will make them sing. I use both Manley Tubes 383w/ch and a Coda sand amp. The Coda is a great pairing, but you do have to bring some power, so factor that in. I power my center channel and rear panel maggies with a mere Rotel, and it's nothing more than a minor step down, but for true music I shut the center channel an MMG on it's side, ribbon up, off and play with 3.6's front and 2.5's rear. With quad 15" subs. There is nothing else I'd trade this for except the 20.1's, and I figure that's coming. Listen to the 1.7's if you can find them.
Jonathan,
Thanks for posting your comments.
How did the 1.7's work with the CCR Center.
The speaker sounded superb in surround sound with Maggie's 20.1-like center channel and its wall-mount surrounds.
Thanks for your enthusiastic report.
Did you have a chance to listen to Mini Maggies? How were they set-up?
The 1.7 was the only speaker on demo at the Magnepan room. The demo used a 3 channel system, with the Magnepan center channel speaker and two 1.7s. Power was supplied by Bryston amplifiers (monoblocks, I think the 28B -- note: big power). Preamp was a Bryston pre/pro. I don't recall the source.
28B's
BCD-1 CD Player
BDA-1 External DAC
BP26/MPS-2 Preamp
That's strange!
@ Soundstage, together with 1.7 loudspeakers, the report clearly shows the Mini Maggies (probably in the adjacent room) on a little table...
I listened to the Maggie 1.7s on Saturday at the Flamingo. At first, I thought they were a revised 3.6, based upon their size and sound. The sound was fabulous for a $5000 speaker. For the $2000 price, I was flabbergasted. People in the room asked, "is it using a sub?" No, it wasn't. Bass notes, tonality, dynamics, imaging -- again, these would have been impresssive in a $5000-6000 speaker. During the classical music demo, some of the crescendos made the sound a little congested, drawing attention to the fact that these speakesr were not quite "reference quality". But for the price, even 3-4X the price, this would be a terrific buy. Honestly, you can't possibly go wrong with this speaker. I was mightily impressed thinking it might be $5K or more. At $2K, it's a steal. I can't wait to hear the 3.7.
Did they mention anything about a successor to the 3.6 as well?
As I was leaving, I asked the Magnepan rep about a 3.6 replacement. He didn't give a specific date, but cagily hinted something might be coming (whether this year or in 5, I can't say).
Hi Jon,
I was so blown away by the Maggie demo that I returned several times with other people who hadn't yet heard it. What Maggie delivers for $2k/pair is a music lover's dream come true. I enjoyed my time there immensely.
Good to see you again, too!
Cheers!
Chris
The Signal Collection, LLC
North American Distributors
of Connoisseur-Grade Hi-Fi
Chris,
It was great to see you, too! (As I told you, I actually went looking for you before we bumped into each other.) And, yes, the 1.7 is something extraordinarily special, well worth revisiting (and reviewing!).
Jon
I'm looking forward to your review when you get them.
By the by, did you stop in for a listen to Continuum's setup? This year was very different from past - Wilson, ARC, Transparent
Cheers!
Chris
The Signal Collection, LLC
North American Distributors
of Connoisseur-Grade Hi-Fi
Mr. Valin,
Thanks for finding the time to start typing your show observations. Prior to your blog posts, the coverage of the show has been pathetic at best on all of the audiophile sites, with only a few pictures here and there.
Coming back to the 1.7, do you think it was a mistake for Magnepan to show it with such an expensive amp? Anyone in the loop about stats/ planars understands that this type of speaker is not embarrassed by $100K of electronics in the chain. However, that high flier customer would probably own the 20.1 model (or the CLX or the Soundlab). The target customer would be hoping to spend much less on amplification. Just like it doesn't make sense to own a Ferrari in a place with no paved roads, will this speaker sound good with cheaper amplification? Or will one be "saving money" on the speaker, while "spending money" on the electronics? Thanks
Curious,
I must admit that the same thought went through my mind about the Bryston 28B. It is unusual for Maggie to show with such a pricey number, but I'm sure it wanted to show its new baby off at its best, and the Bryston is mucho powerful and, though expensive, not nearly as much as some super-powerful amps. When I test the 1.7 I will be sure to try it with Odyssey Khartago.
Jon
Hi Jon, how does the new 1.7 compare to the 3.6? I am in the market for a Maggie and not sure which one to go with. Thanks and happy New Year. Peter
Dont worry about what maggie to buy, just buy one! The one you can afford will be just right! I have the MMG's that I rewired and replaced the crossovers. Freeking awsome! You can tweak these to sound like anything you want. The technology is sound. Thats why they dont mess with it much. You will never go back to a box if you take what the maggie offers and run with it.
Hi Jon,
First off I would like to say thank you for bringing these wonderful speakers into the spotlight! I just got a pair of MMG's about 3 months ago and am already considering upgrading, but I'm not sure if I would be able to financially swing upgrading electronics and speakers at the same time. Do you think that these would sound ok on my Hafler DH-500 w/ DH-110 pre until I upgrade them if I do the speakers first?
Thanks,
Chris
Jon,
Sorry I missed these, closer to my price range than the Perfect8 Force I listen to while you were there.
I am still trying to locate what I think you said was Symphony No. 6 by an American composer whose name my brain made to sound like "Corcelli" but must have been something else. I'd like to hear the rest of it, and some day your reaction to the "Force." Thanks,
Terry
Are you thinking of John Corigliano?
HI,
This might be the composer you were thinking about? John Corigliano
Hi Jon, thanks for the great preview of the new 1.7. I'd be very interested in also getting your thought on how the 1.7 compared to 3.6. Thanks, Peter.
Peter,
I'd have to hear the 1.7s in my home with my reference electronics to be able to tell how it sounds vis-a-vis other speakers I've reviewed. However, I had a problem with the 3.6's ribbon tweeter and could never get it to blend invisibly with the planar mid/bass.
Jon
I also had that same problem, with the MG20. Could never get the tweeter to blend. 2 dozen resistors, bi-amping; the 2.6 NEVER had that problem.
Does the M 1.7 require any more or less power to drive than the 1.6's. Is placement of these 1.7's equally as important (and frustrating) as the 1.6's. Thanks!
StevenH,
Maggie is claiming a small increase in sensitivity with the 1.7 over the 1.6, but the fact that it opted to go with the Bryston 28Bs ought to tell you more than any sensitivity figures. Just like the 1.6s and every other Maggie, these things clearly need power, and I have no reason to think that they will be any easier (or harder) to place in-room than the 1.6s.
Jon
This power issue for the Maggies is nutts, I have a pair of 1.6s and am driving them with a Cary Rocket 88R TUBE amplifier running in the TRIODE mode (30 Watts) and they play as loud as I want them to go (over 95DB peaks) and the amp shows no strain, the system is so musical that I can listen for hours and hours at a time with NO fatigue, and no apparent clipping. For most of my listning, my levels are set around 85DB. In my opinion, when compaired to a high quality tube amp, a solid state amp needs to have several times the power output to perform at the same levels. If you have a good tube amp, even if it is less than 100 watts, buy the Maggies and enjoy, you won't look back, and most likely will not need more power. For my hearing protection concerns, I have chosen 95DB peaks as my personal limit.
Jonathan - I too am excited about the new 1.7's, my question is, do you know if they have the ability to be bi-amped via the stock x-over? I have a marantz a/v receiver and would like to use a pair of spare channels to drive the 1.7's. Any comments? Thank you. Michael
Michael,
I don't know if it has provisions for bi-amping, but I will find out for you.
Jon
Jon - thanks a lot! Look forward to your answer. Regards, Michael
Speaking of the Odyssey amp w/r to seeng how the 1.7's sound with significantly more affordable amplification, why not consider the Odyssey Stratos in either stereo or mono configs? I'd be very curious to see how the new Maggies sound with the wonderful Wyred4Sound Class D amps as well. You can get a lot of cool running current for not a lot of dosh from E.J. and Mr. Cullen. I bet they'd match up nicely...
Another vote for pairing with the Odyssey Khartago, Jonathan. I wouldn't mind hearing what it sounds like with the new Audio Research digital amp, the DSi200, either!
I have an Odyssey Stratos paired with 1.6s with Mye Stands. The Stratos brings the Maggies to life.. The sound is almost magical.
I have my 1.6s paired with Mye Satnds and an Odyssey Stratos Extremes. The sound is magical...
Earl, how do you like the Mye Stands? Price looks good for what you get with those. They look very substantial with nice brass points. Do you add weight to the back of the frame? How big a room do you run the 1.6s and the Extreme in?...Stereo or monoblocks?
I love the Mye stands. They are extremely well made. The crate they came in could have withstood a nuclear holocaust. Grant has excellent customer support. He even sent me a replacement set of brass points at no charge. Inserting them in my system made an immediate improvement in the imaging. I have not added any additional braces or supports to the stands. I have the Maggies in my great room with my HT which is 21x16 with 18 foot ceilings. I must admit though the single greatest improvement in my system was the addition of Nordost Blue Heaven speaker cables. (I bought them on Ebay..Retail price would have sent me to divorce court.) My Stratos is the stereo Extreme.
Thanks, Earl. Good to hear such a ringing endorsement for the Mye Stands. They certainly look the part. I bet the Stratos Extreme is a great match with the speakers as well.
Either have $16,000 worth of amps for these $2k speakers or get out. I wanted to buy these speakers, but why didn't they target their audience buyers (2k People, 2k)???? Ya right 20k worth of amps for 2k worth of speakers.
There is a lot of talk about Maggies being amp hungry. This is simply not truel ALL speakers do better with better amps. Maggies are no different. But you can connect them successfully to a "lower" amp and still benefit from the awesome sound Maggies produce.
I am running a pair of MG 0.5QRs with a Pioneer VSX-515 AV receiver rated at 50W RMS per channel. Source input are FLAC encoded files, connected via digital link (bypassing the PCs DAC) into the Pioneer. I listen to a whole range of genres, from classical to hard rock. All files are averaged out to 83db (using Replay Gain) with peaks left unlimited. My Radio Shack SPL meter is set to C weighted, Fast, and to the 80db range. On the better high-dynamic-range recordings the cooling fans of the Pioneer kick in.
Yes I could do with more power. But keeping in mind that every 3db is a doubling of power I would need 400WRMS on tap to have an additional 9db headroom. But my main listening is when I have a book in hand, and "70db" is usually the level I listen at anyway.
So, don't write off the Maggies if you cannot get an expensive amp. Their excellent mid-bass transient response is unavailable on any speaker under $10K, there is no equal speaker system that has as transparent a window into any recording (and the Maggies are cruel in that regards on poor recordings).
No money for a big amp? Don't give up on Maggies because of that myth.
(Waiting for my big lottery win to upgrade my system.... ;-))
Cheers!
skris88
Sydney, Australia
There is a lot of talk about Maggies being amp hungry. This is simply not truel ALL speakers do better with better amps. Maggies are no different. But you can connect them successfully to a "lower" amp and still benefit from the awesome sound Maggies produce.
I am running a pair of MG 0.5QRs with a $300 Pioneer VSX-515 AV receiver rated at 50W RMS per channel. Source input are FLAC encoded files, connected via digital link (bypassing the PCs DAC) into the Pioneer. I listen to a whole range of genres, from classical to hard rock. All files are averaged out to 83db (using Replay Gain) with peaks left unlimited. My Radio Shack SPL meter is set to C weighted, Fast, and to the 80db range. On the better high-dynamic-range recordings the cooling fans of the Pioneer kick in.
Yes I could do with more power. But keeping in mind that every 3db is a doubling of power I would need 400WRMS on tap to have an additional 9db headroom. But my main listening is when I have a book in hand, and "70db" is usually the level I listen at anyway.
So, don't write off the Maggies if you cannot get an expensive amp. Their excellent mid-bass transient response is unavailable on any speaker under $10K, there is no equal speaker system that has as transparent a window into any recording (and the Maggies are cruel in that regards on poor recordings).
No money for a big amp? Don't give up on Maggies because of that myth.
(Waiting for my big lottery win to upgrade my system.... ;-))
Cheers!
skris88
Sydney, Australia
Now, now. Don't jump to conclusions. I'm going to try the 1.7s with the very affordable Odyssey Khartgo stereo and Stratos monoblock amps, and if the Odysseys perform as well with the 1.7s as I am told they perform with the 1.6s, you will have $2k amps for $2k speakers. In fact, you may even have a $1k amp for a $2k speaker.
I bought 1.6's a year and half ago. I want to kill myself. I won't even pretend there's even a way to DIY upgrade the speakers to a similar status. Ugggh. Utterly depressing.
Jonathan, can you please give a bit more on the differences heard between the 1.6's and the new 1.7's? You are one person I can wholeheartedly trust to give a aural synopsis of the initial differences. Thank you for anything additional, prior to the formal review.
The areas of depth, bass and coherency (treble to bass) would be the most obvious areas of improvement. The new frame would also seem to negate the 'necessity' of using Mye stands or Sound Anchors or a DIY stand. The Xover also has been upgraded but what about the nickel binding posts of past incarnations? Could you give us some insight in these and other areas (not mentioned in the forum yet)?
Jeff,
It's hard for me to go beyond what I said in my show report until I've got the 1.7s in my home. I've only heard the speakers once, but on the basis of this shortish listen I would say that bass is improved in extension, flatness, and dynamics over the 1.6s. I also think the treble has been improved. There was a bit of upper-midrange brightness on some music in the room Maggie was in, but not on all music and nothing like what you hear with Maggie's "true ribbon" tweeter. I assume this was a room/electronics/cable/program problem, since the treble seemed quite impressively smooth overall, and dispersion did seem to be improved over that of the 1.6s. The most impressive thing about the 1.6s and now the 1.7s is how coherent they are--how much they sound like one driver (or like no driver, which is almost the psychoacoustic equivalent). I very much got the "one-driver" feeling from the 1.7s. I also thought that voices were very realistic, something Maggie's are traditionally exceptional at.
Jon
So, to the heart of the matter....Do you have any idea when a full review will be forthcoming??
I read your review on 1.7's and almost wet down my leg!! I have had 1.6's for several years and love them but always felt they just missed the cymbals on the upper end of Roy Haynes drum kit and the bottom of Ray Brown's bass. I contacted my local dealer about a trade in. Mine are black cloth with dark cherry wood trim. I'm told that mine are worth about 1K (perfect con) in trade. That doesn't bother me but the price issues left me a little unsettled. Seems that the cherry wood trim will be around $150.00 more than black trim wood and the aluminum trim is about $100.00 more. I guess my question is, given the new aluminum framing, other than aesthetics, is it worth the extra dough for the aluminum trim? Does it in any way assist the new framing? I know you haven't had these in a more controlled environment yet, but I just have to ask. Thank you very much for your input!
I read your review on 1.7's and almost wet down my leg!! I have had 1.6's for several years and love them but always felt they just missed the cymbals on the upper end of Roy Haynes drum kit and the bottom of Ray Brown's bass. I contacted my local dealer about a trade in. Mine are black cloth with dark cherry wood trim. I'm told that mine are worth about 1K (perfect con) in trade. That doesn't bother me but the price issues left me a little unsettled. Seems that the cherry wood trim will be around $150.00 more than black trim wood and the aluminum trim is about $100.00 more. I guess my question is, given the new aluminum framing, other than aesthetics, is it worth the extra dough for the aluminum trim? Does it in any way assist the new framing? I know you haven't had these in a more controlled environment yet, but I just have to ask. Thank you very much for your input!
What about looking at the Belles 150a (Hot Rod) at $1800, as a great alternative to the Khartago? There do seem to be a lot of other US companies that do great value offerings in amps. Rogue comes to mind, but they have had a lot of US press lately. I'm surprised that JV hasn't reviewed some of the more lofty offerings from Power Modules... given their US Mfg platform, and the success of their presence overseas. Except for one review over a decade ago, from Stereophile, and the online reviews (also good), not much seems to be covered by the Belles line.
I have enjoyed the conversation, and was wowed by the 1.7. I went into he audio store convinced on Vandersteens, and ended up spending most of my time with the Maggies. So, while still undecided, I am returning to give them both another listen. I didn't hear anyone speak on the virtues or defects of the ICEPower amps, like the Bel Cantos. How do you think that they would stack up? Thanks, Jack
I have played Maggie´s 3.6 with Bel Canto 1000 Reference (Mk 1) mono blocks, and they just sounded great. Mk 2 is even better. Great match; enough (ICE) power, without sauna heat :) I have also listened Maggie 1.6 with Bel Canto electronics (CD-player (CD2), Dac and mono amplifiers 500) and just liked them a lot. All I can say that Bel Canto is natural choice with Maggie´s.
I run a pair of 1.6's with a bridged pair of Bel Canto Evo 200.2's and love the result. Plenty of power, great clarity, and still a certain ear-friendly lushness. That being said, I've heard them run with Audio Research VT-100's and they sounded great, too.
Thanks John, it would be kind of tidy to go with an all Twin Cities system (I'm in St. Paul) if I decide on the Maggies, bel Cantos or AR. I think that Audio Perfection would accommodate me by letting me hear the Maggies with both amps. They were very nice when I dropped in a coupleof Saturdays ago. I visited the Magnepan office--nice people, and hope to check out AR(said to be as nice) and Bel Canto.
I am intrigued by the ICEpower technology, but would love to support a company the is as friendly as I have heard AR is.
To answer Jack Plummer--I heard a set of 1.6's in Portland, OR at Pearl Audio, John Loranger's store. They sounded great with Bel Canto equipment. John and I had a long talk about Switching Amplification in general. He related that most any well made class D amp with a sufficient power supply will do just fine with the Maggies. Myself, I just ordered a set of 1.7's from him and I will be powering them with a Spectron III SE MK2. I can't wait to blow some fuses!!
Thanks oofer,
I envy you your 1.7's. I listened to Gaucho on a pair, and got lost in the sound. The highs were fine and natural--not brash like the much more pricey B&Os. I hadn't been that impressed since I first heard the Klipschorns in the 60's. (I've been a bit out of the audio scene in the interim). I checked out the press on your amp--nice. God speed on receiving your speakers, and enjoy.
Hi - My wife bought me a pair of MMG for Christmas. Why should I spend an extra $1400 on a pair of 1.7? By the way, I power them with a Soundcraftsmen A5002 and the combination sounds great.
Hi Patch,
Yeah I agree that the MMG's are great.
When I went to Magnepan, they had a set of the MMG's set up==and only the MMG"S, in the entry area. They sounded wonderful. I then went to the store where they had every model (including the MMG's ) set up. If I would have stopped at listening to the MMG's I would have been more than satisfied, and when I worked up to the 12s, 1.7's and then the 3.6's, I didn't feel that the improvement was worth double the price at each step up. BUT... when I stepped back down === it was very evident that the price difference was not only justified, it seemed to be a bargain. The 1.7's are definitely worth the price, and the 3.6's are definitely worth the price! I didn't have the heart to try the 20's---they are WAY out of my price zone. My advice is to enjoy the MMG's, but check out the 1.7's. I think Magnepan has an upgrade offer that is exceptional to move up from the MMG.
Thanks for the tip on the Soundcraftsman A5002, I'll check it out. Jack
I just don't get it. Are the 1.7 really worth $1400 more then the MMG? Someone please try to convince me.
8diagrams,
I originally had the MMG's and was completely happy with them. Maybe a year or so later I wanted to hear what else Magnepan had to offer. I was really just curious to see if Magnepan could create something better than the MMG’s. So I drove an hour north to visit the Magnepan dealer. They had the 1.6's setup with a Classe CA-101 directly connected to a Wadia CDP (don't recall which model but it was 7-8 years ago). They had the 3.6’s in the other room with Mark Levinson monoblocks and source equipment.
I brought my own music and sat down for a listen. SOLD. It didn't take more than a single song for me to hear the difference between the MMG's and 1.6's.
I also heard the 3.6's but at the time but I didn't like the way the tweeter seemed separate from the whole (much like Jon's feeling on the 3.6's – they simply weren’t as coherent as the 1.6’s – more sparkle in the treble region but at the expense of coherency I felt).
So what about the 1.6’s vs the MMG’s?
Just think of everything good about MMG's and imagine everything from top to bottom getting significantly better (how – I don’t know – it’s the same kind of planar quasi ribbon tech). Increased detail retrieval, midrange goodness, dynamics and bass response. At the time MMG's were just $400 and 1.6's were $1600. No the 1.6's were not 4x better than the MMG's but most certainly 2x better. So today the MMG's are $599 and the 1.7's are $1995. I'd be willing to bet the 1.7's are now more than twice the speaker the MMG’s are. In fact I’m probably going to pick up a pair here soon (too bad there isn’t a dealer here anymore).
Simple - Thanks for the explaination. I heard the 1.6 and 3.5 about 8 months ago. I agree with you about the tweeter sounding seperate from the the rest of the speaker. I much prefered the 1.6 and almost bought a pair, but I couldn't pass up Magnepan's deal on the MMG knowing that I have a year to trade them in or return them within 60 days. I have a Magnepan dealer about 45 minutes from me. I'm going to have to go listen to the 1.7, but they are really going to have to wow me in order for me to trade in my new MMG and an extra $1400. I don't know what to hope for. It would be nice to just be so blown away by the 1.7 that I have to buy them, but then again it would be nice to have the opposite happen and save $1400.
Jonathan
Do you think the Ayre AX7e is a good match with the 1.7s? (60 into 8 ohms, 120 into 4 - 12 X 21 room)
thanks
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