LISTENING ALERT! State of the Art: the Lamm ML3 Signature, the Lamm LL1 Signature.

Posted by: Breuninger at 1:01 pm, July 29th, 2010

First Listening Alert!    
 
See Intro Below.
August 10, 2010- after two weeks of burn-in the Lamms got a first listen.  Mind you, this was day one and should be considered (very) preliminary. 
 
The Coincident Pure Reference Extreme loudspeakers were placed in the exact position of the MBLs in listening room number one.  Assisting in set-up was Robert Grossman of the Philadelphia Orchestra.  We began experimenting with the toe-in of the tweeter/mid unit and within an hour the Lamms literally came alive.   Now, I truly value the spaciousness of the MBLs and the rock hard slam at high SPLs they admirably deliver but I was unprepared for the astonishing realism of the Lamm/Coincident pairing.  Grossman noted that this was the most realistic sound reproduction he’s ever heard.  Instruments appeared in the room as if real, I kid you not.  
 
This was the first time I’ve heard a tube based system not add its own brand of space, dimensionality or texture to the soundfield.  In fact, there was nothing added to the instrumental image- it just appeared. Living and breathing- right there in front of you.  How many times have I played Diana Krall, Live in Paris? I’ve worn it out- the same old sound, the same old performance.  My goodness, last night I was at the Olympia Theatre in Paris, front row-middle seat, and there was nothing between me and Krall’s raspy/sultry voice. I’ve never heard reproduced sound, transcend reproduction, if that makes sense.  Little cues, like Krall’s head turning, just a touch, in front of the microphone were now clearly audible.  More memorable than the first IRS IV experience or Magico Mini revelation, this Lamm/Coincident paring takes the listening experience a giant leap closer to reality.  There is no SET halo effect or cupping hands coloration to remind you that you are listening to an audio system.
 
How often we consider attributes to evaluate audio like; image density, timber and pace.  Try as I may to use these tools during the first listening sessions I found, within a nanosecond, that I was not being drawn into the music, I was being tricked into a sonic reality.  This will be an exciting review experience for you... and for me.  Let me add, the Lamms, for the first time, are being evaluated on dynamic speakers that are actually designed for single ended triode amplifiers. 
 
 

 
 
These state-of-the-art amplifiers from Lamm may very well be the best amplifiers in the world.  This is serious audio-they come complete with white goves.
 
The four chassis, 32 watt per channel, ML3 singled ended amp weighs in at $139,290 and the four chassis, LL1 preamp tips the money scales at $42,690 (prices as of July 28, 2010).   Lamm pushes the "dollar per watt" sweepstakes to $4,350, head and shoulders above the $3,800 per watt  Audio Note Ongaku and $3,500 per watt Wavac HE-833.  The Lars Type I (still) reigns surpreme at a whopping $6,250 per watt.  Insanity perhaps, but perfection has its cost..  If you believe, as I do, that you “gets” what you “pays” for, then these amplifiers will deliver the goods.  Brand spankin new, fresh out of the box, here is a taste of what's to come; endless soundstage, huge ambient space, and natural tonality. 
 
Folks, I'm going to give you the most comprehensive report yet on these outstanding products.  SETs are one of my specialties and I promise to not disappoint.  When you read the review, it will be like being here.  Plus, you won't have to box them back up.
   
They will receive a two week, 12 hour a day, burn-in playing FM radio broadcasts.  I'll put into service a pair of 94 dB efficient, Coincident Pure Reference Extreme (CPREs) loudspeakers to test every possible sonic parameter . The CPREs present an easy to drive 8 ohm nominal load that never dips below 6 ohms.  The 32 watts of Lamm will thus produce gobbs of concert hall slam.    
 
As below... this is the burn-in system.  The Lamms are powering a pair of Bozak Concert Grands (out of view).  The GM-70 output tubes run hot.  Thank gosh for the ceiling fan and the airco.  You'll notice a pair of classic Krell KMA 400s framing the LM3s.  These 700 watt per channel (into 4 ohms) monsters are the "go to" amps for everyday MBL listening.  Krell is sending a pair of EVO 900e's with 1800, yes, one thousand, eight hundred WATTS (into 4 ohms), to make sure I understand the difference between 32 and 1800 watts.  That's a Wyetech Opal pre and a classic Motif MC-7 topping it off.  And don't worry, the LL1s will be separated and placed on maple stands for proper testing.

 
 
 
 
 
 

Comments

Marcel -- Thu, 07/29/2010 - 13:13

With an introduction like this, the Lamms can be certain to get a raving review.
 
Unless the set (pun intended) is broken, they will be the 'best amps ever'.
 
This might sound a bit cynical, but the fact is that we all are human, and so is the reviewer. And with expectations like they are sketched above, any human being will do its best to make large parts of these expectations come true.
 
Anyway, your review probably will be good fun, so I am looking forward to reading it.

Breuninger -- Thu, 07/29/2010 - 13:45

I'll go "Valin" on them if they so deserve.  Please stay tuned.

brian -- Fri, 08/20/2010 - 16:42

Oh no, don't do that :)

Try to avoid using expressions in your review which might be created by the Audiophile Cliche Generator, or coining new ones for me to add to it.

Brian Walsh
Essential Audio  ~  Chicago area ~ 773-809-HIFI (4434)

john195 -- Fri, 07/30/2010 - 05:36

Nice!

Wised Up -- Sun, 08/01/2010 - 15:41

 I pity you!
You already know that these wonderful Lamms WILL ruin you for life and the day will come that you have to give them back. Send me everything now and allow me to suffer in your place!
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

bherlihy -- Tue, 08/03/2010 - 14:36

 Breuninger - like to see the sense of humor - keep it up!

john195 -- Thu, 08/05/2010 - 21:37

Silence of the Lamms Breuninger !

oneobgyn -- Sun, 08/08/2010 - 08:07

Hi Peter
 
Good to see that Vladimir (per my suggestions) found that you and your system were worthy to do the review. Of course I am biased and thought I would add some. I have owned this combo for the past year (previously Lamm ML 2.1 and ARC Ref 3.  which together drove my X-2's wonderfully. The ML3's are like ML 2.1's on steroids The LL1 Signature preamp is incredible. If there any shortcomings it is the absence of a remote (which Vladimir will never use in his preamps because he feels it adversely affects the signal) and a dual mono unit where each gain control needs to be manually moved as well as the glaring absence of XLR inputs (Vladimir uses XLR outputs which are pseudobalanced). Vladimir also does not believe in a true XLR balanced termination.
As for the preamp bear in mind that it is an inverting preamp and be sure to reverse he polarity on your speaker cables.
 
BTW, the output tubes are GM-70 (not GL-70) and come stock with a carbon plate. FWIW, Vladimir managed to find 6 pair of GM-70 copper plated tubes which apparently all there were in the world. I bought a pair (not cheap at $900/pair). Presents a totally different sound than the carbon plated GM-70's
I also use a pair of NOS circa 1963 Telefunken ECC803S diamond emblem on bottom. This makes for a far sweeter sound than the stock 12AX7 Vladimir uses.
 
Finally after you have everyting dialed in and you sit down for your first listen I recommend wearing Depends because after your jaw hits the floor you will promptly wet your pants. IMHO this combo is the one by which all others will be judged.
 
As to 32 watts vs 1800 watts we all know that it is the first watt right. I can honestly say that these amps can make your speakers play at near ear bleeding SPL. In fact I have only been able to get the amp to clip once since I bought it.
Enjoy. 

remember also that the GM-70 is an SET and a DHT

Breuninger -- Fri, 08/06/2010 - 11:47

Yes, some people demand the best of what they love. It’s wonderful and enables entrepreneurs like Vladimir to reach for the sky. There is so much passion in music, music making and music reproduction. I wrote this intro with a smile but I know that this is serious audio for serious people. When I first heard a SET it was like finding a part of myself I never knew. I became lost in a new found and dazzling connection to my music. This was twenty years ago and I feel it all over again with the Lamms. At this level the lines blur between art, machine and passion. Without the Lamms, then without dreams.

 
(I fixed the tube type, thanks to the edit function)

oneobgyn -- Tue, 08/10/2010 - 12:42

As I promised you Peter. Welcome to TAS :)
Whenever I host people at my house their revelations are identical to that of yours and your friend. Imaging, sound stage, dynamics, realism etc are just unequalled by any amp/preamp combination I have ever heard.
Be patient however as it gets better. I am anxious to hear your evaluation of 32 watts SET vs 1800 watts SS. As I said earlier I have only been able to get the amp to clip on one occasion. There is plenty of head room for sure. The bottom end is superb for a tube amp with only 32 atts SET.
 
I trust you reversed the polarity of your speaker cables.

john195 -- Tue, 08/10/2010 - 23:17

How many hours do the tubes last in the Lamms ?

Breuninger -- Wed, 08/11/2010 - 09:06

http://www.lammindustries.com/PRODUCTS/ML3descr.html

oneobgyn -- Wed, 08/11/2010 - 11:04

Peter
 
I am interested in your comment that your speakers are actually designed for SET amps
 
Can you elaborate further on this as it seems a slightly strange comment implying that other speakers wont

Breuninger -- Wed, 08/11/2010 - 11:47

 The amp/speaker interface is paramount with SETs.  There are numerous speakers these Lamms will team well with but a 94 db efficient speaker that does not dip below 6 ohms and presents a nominal 8ohm load is well suited for the Lamms, as are the big Wilsons you own.   Honestly,  I would take pause with using these Lamms with say a Wilson Sasha due to the low 1.8 ohm dip.  It's not so much the efficiency, it's the load swings that can effect frequency response.  Back to my comment,  The Coincident's are designed with SETs that go as low as 3 watts and are thus wonderful reviewing tools for SET projects.

oneobgyn -- Wed, 08/11/2010 - 11:56

so basically it isnt that your speaker was designed for SET's as you claimed but rather the speaker is efficient. I think it would have been more appropriate to have said this rather than your speakers were designed for SET's. Just a thought

montejay -- Thu, 08/12/2010 - 10:18

How much of what your hearing (ie. realism)is speaker related.

oneobgyn -- Thu, 08/12/2010 - 10:30

As Peter indicated these amps thrive on speakers with high efficiency. My speakers are rated 95Db efficient and the match of Lamm/Wilson IMHO is second to none.

Breuninger -- Thu, 08/12/2010 - 11:31

Dear Montejay,
Yes, very good question.  We shall see and we will have wait for the magazine to hit the newsstands.
I will be formally reviewing the CPRE's in Oct., so there will be much more to report.
 

microstrip -- Fri, 08/13/2010 - 16:37

I think that it is this real enthusiasm that makes forums enjoyable!
I hope some day I will hear the Lamm’s, but they are not imported in my country.  However a tricky question can arise - which would you prefer : a 16bit 44.1kHz CD of Waltz for Debby  played through the  LL1 – ML3 or a Tape Project tape played through the ARC Ref3 ML2.1 ?
Could  the better handling of the LL1 – ML3 compensate for the different  quality of the sources?
Also, could you refer more speakers that are compatible with the ML3? From my past experience efficiency and impedance are not the whole story.

oneobgyn -- Fri, 08/13/2010 - 16:49

FWIW, I loved the ARC Ref 3 with the Lamm ML 2.1 but in all honesty it just doesn't come close to the LL1/ML3 combo as the latter approaches an uncanny realism that we all seek to attain

microstrip -- Sat, 08/14/2010 - 17:27

I understand that the LL1/ML3 combo is much superior, but is this enough to say that the best digital in the LL1/ML3 is more realistic than the best analog in the ref3/ML2.1?
I am asking because since I have the ARC Anniversary preamplifier I am enjoying digital much more than I could ever imagine. Some "defects" that I previously associated with digital vanished with this preamplifier. But analog also jumped to another level.

redjack8@hotmail.com -- Thu, 09/02/2010 - 00:04

Mr. onebgyn,
You say that Vladimir could find 6 pair of copper plate GM70s in the world , but are these not copper plate GM70s?
http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-GM-70-GM70-Hi-End-COPPER-plate-triode-NOS-x2-/200508025736?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2eaf35ab88
 
http://www.tubes-store.com/product_info.php?cPath=30_48&products_id=48
 
http://cgi.ebay.com/GM-70-Hi-End-Power-Triode-COPPER-Plate-2pcs-OTK-/220657038222
 
Regards
 

oneobgyn -- Thu, 09/02/2010 - 07:01

Are they matched pairs and are they new? The third link shows the tubes as being used

BTW ,FWIW I prefer the stock carbon plate GM-70 over the copper plated version

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