High-End Audio: Demo or Die!
Demo or Die!
Robert Harley
“Publish or perish” is a well-known phrase in the academic world—if your work isn’t published in professional journals, your career will perish. The high-end audio industry should adopt a parallel mantra—“demo or die.” That is, the only way for high-end audio to thrive is to demonstrate, to one customer at a time, the joy of hearing music wonderfully reproduced.
There’s simply no substitute for hearing your favorite music recreated with an involvement and intensity you never thought possible. The demo allows you to instantly “get” what high-end audio is all about, a phenomenon I’ve written about previously (“Ten Minutes in the Sweet Spot”). Hearing descriptions of high-end audio, reading magazines, or looking at pictures of great gear will never begin to convey that electrifying experience of connecting with music at a deeper level. I’ll bet that every one of you vividly remembers your first high-end experience and the resulting epiphany. You instantly knew that you had to have the gear that would, for the rest of your life, deliver that thrilling experience night after night.
The fact that there’s no way for music lovers to discover our hobby or for manufacturers to find new customers other than by demonstration leads to the inescapable conclusion that the high-end audio retailer is the lynchpin of the entire industry. It’s the retailer who’s on the front-line representing high-performance audio, and who is essential to its survival.
The retailer isn’t just vital to the industry’s health—he’s also the surest path to your long-term musical satisfaction. There’s no substitute for the value added by a skilled and caring dealer. When I’m asked for specific equipment recommendations my advice always begins with “Shop for a dealer, not for equipment.” That aphorism reflects my belief that if you find a great dealer, you’ll end up with a great-sounding system.
It’s no secret that high-end dealers have had a rough time over the past ten years. The first blow to the industry came, ironically, in the form of home theater. Many traditional dealers were tempted by the huge influx of money from homeowners wanting “media rooms,” and whole-house audio, lighting, and control systems. Sound quality was a distant afterthought. Many traditional high-end dealers who entered that arena found that the hassles outweighed the gains. Others were dissatisfied with being gadget purveyors rather than ambassadors for music and high-end audio ideals. The second blow, of course, is the current economy.
Nonetheless, there’s been a resurgence in the traditional values long espoused by high-end retailers. Many who converted their store’s two-channel listening rooms into theater demo rooms have switched them back to music rooms. Those who maintained their core principles of delivering great sound, operating from a position of integrity, and basing their business on musical values have found their companies thriving. This trend is part of a larger movement away from trophy theater rooms and back to the fundamental values of the musical experience. Performance-based audio, and the musical involvement it delivers, is ascending as customers tire of the shallowness of remote-controlled lighting and whole-house in-wall speakers. Music is a universal human need that transcends the latest technological fad.
There are many outstanding high-end retailers whom we should all recognize and support. They’ve made a substantial investment to provide their unique expertise and to offer you the ability to audition products. We intend to spotlight these exceptional retailers in the coming months by publishing profiles of the country’s best dealers. In the meantime, I encourage you to develop a long-term mutually beneficial relationship with your local dealer. You’ll not only end up with better sound in your home, but you’ll be supporting the essential vehicle that brings the high-end audio experience to a new generation of music lovers.
(I invite everyone to post your nominations for the country's best high-end retailers.)
Comments
there should be a list of the worse dealers too..so people can avoid a terrible experience with some of these snobs. lol I have walked out of quite a few without even being greeted or talked to properly. I kept shopping for someone better and then went with the better customer service and spending my hard earned money with someone who was atleast respectful. I think by enlarge the worse customer service in anyfeild is at many Hi end audio dealers. A close second is Car dealer ships. You always leave with a fantastic feeling specially if you wont buy right away. lol
Funny, Sam! Before I finished reading your comment, I was thinking the exact same thing as your closing comments. It would be a real toss-up as to whom I would least like to spend my time with; a high end audio salesman or a [used] car salesman! LOL I nominate ZOBO.tv as one of the worst high end audio shops to visit. The snob level is right up there with diamond retailers.
I mean, who do these people think they are?! Their whole well-being is dependant upon their ability to pull a fast one and the gullibility of their customers! Sheesh!
Well said Robert. Agreed. I nominate Dallas Audio Concepts, Dallas, TX. Mark Ashworth and the crew are friendly, knowledgeable, and have an outstanding store for demos.
I would like to recommend Acoustic Image in Studio City, CA. Elliot Midwood will give you one-on-one service and demos in a dedicated listening room attached to his home. One of the best...
Thanks for those dealer recommendations. Keep them coming!
Incidentally, I've heard good things about both those dealers.
My highest recommendation goes to Goodwins Highend in the greater Boston area (Waltham, MA - 30 mins outside of Boston). Great knowledgeable staff with customer-centric approach to sales, not product pushers. Some of the best listening rooms that I have seen, including many high end audio dealers in NYC (they have 3 2-channel audio and 3 HT listening rooms). Gooodwins offers a broad array of equpment with mostly marquee names in the high end (although they can enhance their entry-level offerings for the first-time buyer trading up from mid-fi quality equipment). All in all, great people, great products, and great environment to audition equipment in.
I highly recommend Audio FX in Sacramento, Ca. They have some great audio rooms set up and they will let you spend quality time in them just listening to your favorite cds/lps without leaning over you waiting for a sale. If you want to swap equipment out from other rooms, no problem. You want to bring home a piece of equipment and demo it in your home for a week, no problem. They sell home theater gear mainly to stay afloat but their passion is definitly 2-channel.
What do you do if you live in a less populated area and you have no local dealer or dealers with varying brands to compare? Are you stuck with Best Buy and the likes? Traveling to audition audio is not always easy.
I have not visited Goodwin's, but I've heard that they achieve spectacular sound in their demo rooms.
i certainly think so. if you are in the Boston area RH, you should definitely visit them. i think you will be very impressed.
Add Overture Ultimate Home Electronics in Wilmington, DE to your list of outstanding audio retailers. Terry Menacker and his staff provide an excellent environment to audition some of the finest audio products available. Terry also sponsers interesting events with important industry people and products. Always a friendly, informative visit to Overture.
I nominate Brooks Berdan of Monrovia, CA. for the best-sounding demos I've ever heard. Set-up, synergy, and attention to detail are all superb.
I second that for Brooks Berdan, Very knowledgable, friendly, and give you the time to carefully demo the stuff without pressuring a purchase or pushing for specific products. Excellent!
Audio Consultants in the Chicago Metro area (5 or 6 stores) still appreciates 2 channel audio, and is more than happy to let you audition components at home over the weekend. The Hinsdale store (I'm not familiar with the others) does it's best to not be snooty when your not familiar with a Manufacturers history of products, which is why I believe they're still in business 30+ years later.
In the UK, in my opinion, just a couple of people who really know what they are doing
- Blade Audio - simply amazing set ups - home visits his speciality
- Music Works - also manufactures stands/cables etc
I'd like to second Mark Ashworth and his team at Audio Concepts in Dallas, TX. I have purchased ARC, Shunyata and other top knotch equipment/accessories from Audio Concepts over a long period of time now and they are consistently a great source of level-headed expertise for high-end equipment. They also have always stayed very up-to-date on new technologies, while tempering their offerings with a long-term value perspective (i.e., testing alot of different products before deciding what they'll sell; so, you know that you're not a guinea pig when you shop with them.) Since they picked up Wilson Audio Specialties a few years ago, they have pretty well cornered the market on providing great equipment and professional advice in this neck of the woods. Kudos to Mark, Byron and the rest of Mark's team.
Outstanding...... as simple as that is the service, knowledge and respect that is given to all that enter this HIGHEND facility in Houston, Texas known simply as SOUND WORLD.
I'll lend my voice to those lifting up Goodwin's Hi End located just outside of Boston. Friendly, professional, knowledgeable and with exceptional demonstration rooms and no pressure.
I've bought gear from Sound Images of Arlington VA for a dozen years. I've sent friends there. They always have time for me, and can always set aside a room and the gear I want to hear. I've bought NAD for myself, and Focal for my son there, but they carry a lot more. I've recently been shopping with Tom at Blue Oasis Audio of Richmond VA, however, and find his commitment to sharing this affliction with others noteworthy. He has a good balance of affordable and esoteric, and does digital just as well as he does analog. He has been more than accommodating in letting me take home gear to hear it interact with my other gear. He carries a nice range of brands, including Quad, Dali, Acoustic Zen, Epos, YBA, Vincent, Cayin, Creek, Musical Fidelity, and Atoll (try finding that last one somewhere else--great sounding, affordable, and made in France). He has at least four brands of turntables in stock at any time. Great range of demo music as well.
A sad footnote is that many consumer's will come into a store, take up an hour or more of a salesperson's time, then leave the store to hunt down the lowest price via the internet. Great for the consumer, bad for the "real" retailer.
Arizona Hi Fi in Tempe Arizona has done an amazing job since 1994 for demonstrating what we all love about the high end. Consider this a vote for their inclusion as a keeper of the flame.
I remember meeting Ms. Manley herself and listening to a great demo there years ago consisting of an Audio Note 3 cdp running through the Manley Stingray into the new (at that time) ProAc 3.5 's. Bliss for under $ 10k total, cables and all. I believe they used Nordost cables, but don't quote me. They are always making an effort to reach out to interested converts as well as those already happily bitten by the audio, let alone tube, bug.
I am not a 'tubey' per se but a fan of great music and great audio reproduction - however achieved.
My main point?
It is retailers like Arizona Hi Fi that give audio a good name.
I totally agree with the post, and believe that truly "hearing" is the only way to covert people into this hobby (or whatever we'd like to call it). I would also submit that there is an additional element often needed, and that is a little "education". Time after time, I've had friends listen to my home system and not "get it" for quite some time because they don't really know what they should be listening for. Just as some would stare and stare at the old 3-D stereograms pictures and see nothing, some listen and listen, but don't "hear". Accordingly, dealers often need to add education and patience to their arsenal, in addition to a demo room.
One doesn't appreciate what one doesn't understand. The more people appreciate something, the more they are willing to invest in it (including money, time, etc.). Hence, more education generally leads to more appreciation, which leads to more (and higher priced) purchases. It seems to me that many hi-end audio retailers don't seem to get this truism. They seem intent on "making the sale sooner, rather than later" and get less pleasant when a sale doesn't appear imminent. I understand the need to pay bills today, but this is short-sighted. When I first started entering this hobby about 5 years ago, I didn't "get it", but I wanted to. I went to shop for a dealer as Robert suggested, but I felt that some of the hi-end places that I visited were all about "selling now". They'd politely let me listen to their demo rooms, but they seemed to get annoyed by probing questions and once they decided that a sale wasn't imminent enough for them, their attitudes changed for the worse. I still have not forgotten their comments and the way I was treated. A lot of goodwill can be quickly eroded by careless words and attitudes - all because the dealer doesn't realize that many hi-end audio shoppers are like the guy standing in front of the 3-D stereogram - staring and staring, and wondering what it is that everyone else is seeing.
As time has passed, I've learned more and more, and desired more and more (and I still have a lot to learn). I recently purchased a pair of speakers (Wilson Sophias) that cost more than what I originally intended on spending for an entire system (and significantly more than my wife intended). However, although there is an authorized Wilson dealer locally with many positive attributes, my business goes to a different dealer from another town - entirely because of the lack of patience and short-sightedness of the owner of the local hi-end dealer. I suspect that many other consumers will stop at the unpleasant local experience, and either abandon the quest altogether, or truncate the quest and buy at their current level of appreciation (which might be Best Buy).
I urge hi-end dealers to not only have a demo room, but also to invest the time and expend the patience to help educate us all (if needed). If so, we will all win in the end - (1) the size of the industry will grow with more people "getting it", (2) dealers will ultimately sell more expensive products as people learn to appreciate more and more, and (3) we will get to enjoy the music even more.
I nominate Arizona HiFi (www.tubeaudio.com) in Tempe, Arizona (Phoenix) they really make it fun to shop for gear & music, give excellent customer service & carry the best state of the art products. My brother in law bought a pair of Anthony Gallo speakers and one of the owners drove about 250 miles out of his way (to Tucson, AZ) to drop them off so my bro'n'law didn't have to wait a week & pick them up himself. I've seen salesmen from other local higher end stereo stores (who get substantial discounts where they work, btw) shopping at AZ HiFi. I didn't fully appreciate what was possible with the stereo format until I heard music in AZ HiFi's listening rooms. The atmosphere is extremely low pressure (presumably because they know they carry the best product lines) and they are always willing to share valuable setup information with you even if you aren't making a purchase that day. It may be possible to put together a nice sounding system yourself but no one, imho, can put together a better sounding system for a given price than these guys. If you ever get the opportunity to go to Arizona HiFi do yourself a favor & stop in!
to SPL Nut...
True, that some shopers will take dealers time listening to equipment, only to find with a little research, the equipment can be found used at steep discounts over dealer pricing. Some will even cross shop dealers for the best price. No doubt the "real" retailer feels the sting when this occurs, but we do operate in a free market economy. A friend shared a story of a long time customer that was barred from his favorite local retailer for buying used online after listening to the gear in that store. Mind you, he had shopped with them for years.
How then, will the "real" retailers adjust to a market that is no longer local to their store(s)? Real Estate agents had to adjust, Car Dealers had to adjust and now, will our local hi-fi shops have to take on a different focus in dealing with customers that can exercise a right to shop ebay, agon, etc for better pricing?
My nominee is ProMusica in Chicago. This is a wonderful store with extremely friendly and knowledable staff. I have purchased several generations of NAIM equipment from them and each visit to the store (or discussions over the phone) has been very informative. One of the things I appreciate most about my dealings with this store is that on occassion I have actually been advised NOT to make a purchase - as I was informed my proposed purchase "would not be a cost effective upgrade." I have endorsed this store to many friends and all who have purchased equipment have been as satisfied as I am. I should note that I travel from North Dakota to shop at ProMusica - the service and selection are indeed worth the trip!!
My experience as an owner of a high end audio store from the early 80's was the decline of high end audio dealerships began with the introduction of the Compact Disc. To the general public there was no difference in the sound of the players which turned the source into a commodity and drove prices down. This was exacerbated by the big box stores which began selling audio by the pound so to speak. The distinction between a high end dealer and a Best Buy/Circuit City became price, there was no sense of expertise or product quality being required to put together a good sounding system. Since it is a fact that high end dealers survive on mid-fi with high-end as the gravy, the gutting of the mid-fi customer out of dedicated audio dealers was the beginning of the decline. In my metro area with a population of about 1/2+ million, in the late seventies there were upwards of 6 mid to high end dedicated audio dealers with true brick and mortar stores. By the middle 90's that had dwindled to 2 of 3, and even they had become home theatre installers to survive with minimal 2 channel audio. That number is still pretty much the same in 2009. There is a slow resurgence of dedicated audiophiles which is largely due to comeback of analog. These are the kind of customers that listening for a difference in sound from the iPod norm which of course has decimated the CD as a source.
The locals now have trouble is competing with companies like Acoustic Sounds and Music Direct, bless their hearts for saving analog. It is hard to travel to big metropolitan areas to get product, it is much easier to have it delivered to you and audition it. It appears that high-end 2 channel audio is now only available at brick and mortar stores in large metropolitan cities. We can only hope that will change. It is my belief that analog will have to drive that market again if it is to happen because our digital customers are largely going to file based audio on computers or iPod sources, which is not the bread and butter of most audio dealers. So what we need is for the market to come full circle to the model of the 70's, with music lovers becoming the customer again.
ListenUp in Denver are a wonderful bunch of people and great to work with, but their two-channel setups have been dwindling down to just one room.
Still, that one room is done very well and the sales people there are nice enough to leave you alone to listen once you've proven you know anything about the equipment in place and don't need to be supervised to avoid poking in the tweeter cones on the B&W 800s.
I second a previous nomination of Overture Ultimate Home Electronics in Wilmington, DE. My father, brother and I have been purchasing for years. Although I live in Northern Virginia, the opportunity to work with Terry Menacker and his staff and benefit from their expertise makes it quite easy for me to drive up to Wilmington. As far as I'm concerned. They're the best of the best!
INNOVATIVE AUDIO IN NEW YORK CITY
I live in East Tennessee where there is a dearth of high quality Hi-Fi retailers. I therefore went to the remote route, contacting retailers by e-mail and telephone. Through the recommendation of Steve Silberman, of Ayre, I located Audio Advice (www.audioadvice.com) in Raleigh, NC. (And yes, Steve, I did buy some Ayre gear). Their service and telephone support is excellent. I have paid one visit there and on Monday, when they are closed, I was given free reign of the extensive demonstration rooms for as long as I wanted. Ivan "The Terrible" Halbach is exemplary in this respect.
I thoroughly recommend Audio Advice both to local residents and to remote people who have no access to a high quality Hi-Fi Store.
Bob MacKenzie
I had the opposite experience with this group. After noticing a problem with a plasma I bought from them, I couldn't get the service department to return even one of my phone calls over a 4 month period. An email to the owner also went unanswered. They just never seemed to want my business, from the first moment I walked in the shop. I would highly recommend Audio Art in Richmond, Virginia however. Tim Harrison, the owner there, is excellent.
Two in Chicagoland... Promusica & Audio Consultants.
To principles and dealers:
Take these experience to heart. As a music lover learning how to match system components to produce the best system synergy, common speedbumps are bound to be repeated and hurt the entire industry.
Owner, major U.S. speaker manufacturer over the phone, "Stop wasting my time.", twice on two calls. He basked in ragging another company and my ignorance. I inquired about a sub-bass unit that I own. "You only lost $ XXX.00." I can deal with loss. Not that attitude and respect. Pass.
Mid-Florida Revel Dealer, "You can't really afford to spend $11,000 on speakers." Pass.
Often the very first question I hear goes like this, "Hi, I'm So-and-so. What are you looking for and how much are you planning on spending?", way before any questions about my system or browsing their inventory and prices. Pass.
National Meridian rep - took over one week to return a call. Call closed with the exclusive and elusive Meridian type responce", "I know how you can improve on a digital front end...", then, refusing to provide any real details as it focused on a computer server - and he brought up the subject. Pass.
"What cables and power conditioner are you using?", before discussing any components. Pass.
"Your system is a little outdated." "Hmmm, it was very expensive and sold with the promise of providing years of listening enjoyment."
"You'll experience years of great sound from this new unit!"
I don't know how to advise principles and dealers. I and many others understand this market is tough and Audiogon/EBAY has added true, "break you" level competition. The best information I've found has been through forums such as Audiogon. I feel principles and dealers need a new, breakthrough business model to support both the primary and secondary markets like Audiogon.
Consider adding in-home, professional set-ups with SLM's and calibration sources for existing systems. Call your customers before a show and ask if there's anything you can look into for them. Get as many local systems properly set-up and fully calibrated to sound better than they dreamed possible (often for the first time). People will seek you out after EXPERIENCING that you are a audio subject matter expert, not just a product line seller.
Dealers may benefit greatly by doing home evaluations on existing systems. Introduce customers to your real expertise for audiophile quality music reproduction. Get into homeowners' doors first. Offer your expert command of SLM's, all proper calibration devices, set-up menus, and make major differences in systems NOW. Significant improvements to existing systems, I'm sure, will pave a new way for you. People will want to brag about your in-home set-up results. We're with you and want really want you winning. You'll have to be the best, especially in a tough secondary market. Reach out somewhere and dream up a new, up-to-date, modern marketing plan. Think about Audiogon, EBAY, Microsoft, Apple, Sony, Toyota - anything that continues to attract tough, new buyers. Pressure audiovisual companies and reviewers by telling them directly what customers desire.
They say the test of all great companies is a simple, great vision that anyone can understand, and the ability to survive long after the original founders depart the company.
When was the last time we saw a major ad in prime time pushing high end components OVER generic, HT-in-a-box manufacturers. Get together to create desire for the real thing for real reasons.
I really don't think there is hope for 2 channel retailers beyond the very biggest cities and the California market. I live in a medium sized city in Florida. I wanted to demo Dynaudio Excite X32s. No dealer here. Called every dealer with in 200 miles. No demo. Called Dynaudio, no help. Just gave me the list of dealers I already had. The so called "dealers" are mostly home theater stores that have very little or zero demo equipment since many home theater customers don't care and are not audiophiles. Picking out the equipment is often very low priority when home theater customers are building a media room and the customers just let the sales guy "get whatever you think I need". And as for 2 channel amps or pre-amps, forget about it. Why would home theater dealers ever demo those?
Then I wanted to demo the new ROTEL 15 series 2 channel amps and pre-amps. Although my city has 2 dealers for ROTEL, not demo possible as neither stocks any 2 channel equipment for demo.
Both ROTEL and Dynaudio have policies against internet sales. So I'm suppose to go to my local ROTEL dealer and buy $2k worth of equipment with no demo, no advice, and no service, paying the dealer a 40% markup to be a simple order taker. This model DOES NOT WORK!
Many people are using EBAY and AUDIOGON and other internet outlets to buy product for home demos, and then re-sell. That's the only way I can demo 2 channel audio gear now. I don't blame the local retailers since there is just not enough demand to justify the brick and mortar stores and demo rooms outside of CA and the 4 or 5 biggest US cities. But there MUST be a new model for selling 2 channel audio products to the many people that have no local option. I won't pay a 40% markup to a home theater retailer that offers zero in retun. That's highway robbery.
In Canada I would have to recommend Alternative Audio in Dundas Ontario and Fairview HiFi in Burlington Ontario. Both stores really want people to come in and experience what they have to offer. Whether you are new to high end audio or a long time enthusiast they make you feel welcome.
It would nice to hear from a dealer and what they think about AGON and eBay. The last dealer I visited clearly had a disdain for AGON. I think dealer need to understand their opinions are not the final word on what we purchase. AGON provides insight and feedback from the user community that gives a personal firsthand experience from other users will similar tastes, budgets, etc. I have learned more from AGON and other websites than any one dealer could have ever provided. Coupled with awareness from certain audio vendors that Internet sales directly to end users, if property done is profitable. Audioadvisors sells Bryston online with a very reasonable return policy. How much easier does it get than having equipment dropped on at your front door?
This is clearly not the same market as the 1970’s. The younger generation (under 40) could care less of about 2-channel, with IPods and torrent sites that allows them to collects Giga-bytes of music that can be played on devices from computers to the latest cell phones. Do they really care about the music quality, apparently not! With a shrinking market and crashed economy, where is the innovation from dealers and vendors to adjust to status quo?
i don't know if you'll get my response but (-: if you're the 2channelman who closed his stickam account re-open it or get on skype...i was travelling for a month and when i came back i noticed you closed it...
maybe youll receive this as a response somewhere
worth a try
(sorry to everyone else reading this as it's not audio related) and one of the few links google gave me
how did you get on here? lol
how did you get on here? lol
Very interesting discussion....you'd think the writer would throw in his 2 cents, but then again his wheels are greased by the manufacturers.
A couple of points....1st, if it weren't for Audiogon I'd still be listening to a 1992 Yamaha multichannel receiver that put simply was awful! OVer the past few years I've spent thousands, and sold thousands of dollars of equipment to get where I am today...with the only thing I've bought from a hifi brick and morter being Speakers. Tubes, Solid state, class A, where else can you live with something for months to decide if it fits synergistically than A'gon or epay, NOWHERE! Satuday Audio in Chicago isn't bad, as their used prices are competitive, but you have to wait for them to have something you want. I've been through more CDP's than carter has pills, once again, it really didn't cost much, didn't buy unless I knew I could re-coup most of my cost.....anyway, I'm happy now, but always looking for that last 5% improvement.
2nd - not all youngsters only like iPods....I was flabbergasted when my daughter called one evening asking if I had any KT88's her boss (who's 30) could buy or try, WOW! Being that I've set her up with a nice system, and she loves vinyl as do many of her friends....I don't know, I guess they're in the minority, just like the rest of us 2 channel lovers, but hope for the next generation isn't all lost.
One of the best dealers I have ever been to is Audio Unlimited in Denver Colorado. John runs it out of his home. He has great products with great value. You will never feel pressured and they are really good at helping you put together a great system that works for you.
I happen to be lucky I live in a state where there still are dealers. I have been itching to upgrade my old college system for years. The demoing route here in NJ has been frustrating to say the least, there are a few good dealers, however very few of them have all that they advertise or don't have what I am looking to purchase. Most of the New York City dealers are rude and unless you want to spend big money and spend it that day your interactions with them may be less than pleasant.
I want to nominate Audio Doctor of Jersey City NJ. www.audiodoctor.com. I went to Audio Doctor to evaluate some Usher and Dali loudspeakers. Dave's shop is located in a huge restored Victorian home on a tree lined street in Jersey City.
I was expecting to see a couple of amps and a few pairs of loudspeakers and instead I found more gear here than in alot of the well known shops in NY or NJ. Dave gave me a tour of his facilities and I was blown away he told me he has over $500,000.00, worth of gear in five sound rooms. His speakers range from PSB Alphas to the $50k Scaena loudspeakers.
I have never seen a nicer collection of especially affordable gear anywhere. I was hoping someday to find a Vincent SV 236 to listen to after reading Fremers glowing review and there on the shelf at Audio Doctor there it was, along side models from Rega, Bryston, Cayin, Plinius, Luxman, NAD, Cary, Musical Fidelity.
Dave showed me his reference music room and I listened to a system comprised of Scaena speakers, BAT gear and an Audio Aero Prestige and AMR CD 77 front ends, this system was amazing!
I think this might be the new model for high end to survive, a passionate, knowedgable person with a tremendous selection of great gear on display in a home enviornment. Dave spent most of a Saturday with me showing me the difference cables and what certain tweeks do. This was a fun way to spend a Saturday and a much more pleasurable experience then I have ever had in an audio store.
The Usher BE 718 on the Vincent amp and a Bryston CD player was awesome, Go Fremer.
Steve,
Another stand up guy in the business is John Rutan from www.audioconnect.com/in Verona NJ He's an authorized dealer for numerous brands and carries many others as well, and one of the few places I know of where you can demo Maggies. He's pretty much a one man show, (at least he used to be) and will let you listen to virtually anything he carries without any hassles and no pressure of any kind, and If I'm not mistaken I believe he also has a trade in policy as well. I didn't buy anything from him but my experience was very positive. Also bear in mind that a good dealer in many cases will act as a middle man if you happen to have any problems with the manufacturer
The Edge in Palatine IL
I would nominate two New Jersey shops that I have dealt with: Audio Nexus in Summit, NJ, and Audio Connection, in Verona, NJ.
I had several good experiences with Audio Systems in Austin, TX. I bought a new turntable, some headphones and a HDCD/DVD player from them and have always been treated right, no snobbery or attitude, just helpful advice and good service from their salespeople! www.audiosystems.com
I think that hi end audio is like biology: evolve or become extinct. Simple.
Hi end shops BY AND LARGE have one of the worst consumer reputations around. I suppose when the clientelle are all well-to-do this is expected but for initiates this is the worst thing to do. I live in Vancouver, BC, Canada and there are 3 hi end shops here. ALL are snobby, arrogant, aloof.... I took the least of the three (and the fact it had what I wanted). Bryston, like many hi end makers, will not honour warranties with internet sales in order to stimulate shop purchases, but this is not how the market works. Using the store to know what to buy then hunting the internet to find what you want is common in EVERY market, so hi end MUST offer something that the simple "look then hunt" model does not.
SERVICE. Whether the person is buying a $2K amp or a $20K amp you want them back. Treat them well, with patience and respect, and they will get it back.
ATTITUDE. The venerable snobby image must go. With so many other outlets for purchasing, the store must get away from the attitude or find themselves out.
PRICING. I am aware that retail is for a reason. I will gladly pay it PROVIDING I get a demo, detailed account of the gear and why it is worth what it is, good warranty, and a home service plan to either try "in home" before buying or the like. It is obvious the store cannot compete on pricing, so compete where the internet cannot. Personal touch.
I am into the hi end bike scene, and in Vancouver it is the centre of the universe as far as mountain biking goes. My bike is over $7000, akin to a stereo system over $200K. I pay for the bike, but the quality is impeccable, service at the store excellent and I am well treated EVERY time I go in. There are a lot of hi end bikes here, so if you offer it, people will pay it. Not many shop for hi end bikes over the internet, because if something goes wrong (and will with the style of riding here, believe me) the shop will help you no problem. I suspect this is the case with audio but bad things do happen occasionally and how one store deals with a problem says more than if things go right.
Even being in a big city there is limited availability. A store cannot carry EVERY model I know but if I wanted Magico, Avalon, Wilson etc I would have to fly to the US to demo it. Not convenient.
Sadly, I think like a lot of audio the store as we know it is doomed. It cannot compete where everyone is looking to save (and 5% on a $10K piece is a lot) and rent/cost of doing business is not getting any better. I cannot say I have all the answers, but without them I suspect the hi fi shop, with only a limited exception, will be extinct, perhaps within 10 years. Alarming? Not really, look at how much music delivery has changed in that time.
I STAY IN ONE OF THE SMALLEST STATES IN THE COUNTRY,DELAWARE. BUT I AM VERY,VERY BLESSED TO LIVE ONLY 13MILES FROM ONE OF THE TOP HIGH END BOUTIQUES IN THE WORLD, "OVERTURE ULTIMATE A/V OUTLET,IN WILMINGTON.AND RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET WE HAVE HI-FI HOUSE,WE MIGHT NOT HAVE A PRO SPORTS TEAM ,BUT WE HAVE HIGH END AUDIO-TAX FREE.ALRIGHT TIME TO GO BACK IN THE BASEMENT AND JAM WITH MY MCINTOSH C2300 A TAS GOLDEN EAR AWARD WINNER AND MY MCINTOSH MC402 POWER AMP A TAS TWO TIME GOLDEN EAR AWARD WINNER AND POY AWARD WINNER,PUSHING MY EDITOR CHOISE AWARD WINNING MARTIN LOGAN PRODIGY'S ALL BEING FED FROM SONY'S SCD 777ES & XA9000ES SACD PLAYERS WHICH I BELIEVE THE XA9000ES IS CURRENTLY IN MR. HARLEY REFERANCE SYSTEM,POY WINNING CABLES KIMBER KABLE 8TC SPEAKER CABLE BI-WIRE AND HERO INTERCONNECT,BALANCED MIT SHOTGUN MA PROLINE BETWEEN MAC'S,ONLY THING PURCHASED OUT OF STATE WAS KIMBER KABLE FROM AUDIO ADVISOR,ALSO ON STANDBY,IS MUSICAL FIDELITY KW-500, OUR STATE MOTTO "SMALL WONDER" I BOUGHT MY FIRST PAIR OF MARTIN LOGANS FROM OVERTURE BACK IN 1999 A PAIR OF AERIUS I FROM DAMIEN KUTNEY HE SOLD ME MY MC402 THIS YEAR,AND JOE, I CALL HIM LITTLE JOE SOLD ME MY PRODIGY'S AND C2300,SUNFIRE TGP3,MCINTOSH C39 AND A HOST OF MIT CABLES AND INTERCONNECTS AND POWER CORDS AND SHUNYATA, I DON'T CALL THESE TWO GUYS SALESMEN I CALL THEM FRIENDS, AND I HAVE TAKEN FRIENDS THAT I'VE KNOWN FOR YEARS TO THESE TWO GUYS FOR THEIR AUDIO NEEDS AND THEY HAVE NEVER BEEN HAPPIER.THIS HERE WILL STICK WITH ME FOR LIFE "I WAS LOOKING TO UP GRADE MY MAC C39 TO EITHER A C46 OR C2300,AT THE TIME I DID NOT HAVE $6000.00 CASH ON HAND(I BUY EVERY THING CASH NO CREDIT CARD) SO JOE AND I WAS KICKING IT AROUND I SAID I WOULD KEEP IN TOUCH. A WEEK LATER I HAD TWO MISSED CALLS ON MY CELL FROM OVERTURE, WHICH IS ODD ,SO I CALLED BACK IT WAS JOE WHO IN FORMED ME ABOUT THE CURRENT MCINTOSH UPGRADE PROGRAM,WHEN HE TOLD ME THAT THEY WOULD TAKE MY 10 YEAR OLD C39 WHICH WAS IN MINT CONDITION FOR TRADE IN ON THE C46 OR C2300,( I PICKED THE 2300)AND MY BALANCE WOULD BE $3500.00 I WAS FLOORED,I THINK HE WAS AS EXCITED AND ENTHUSED AS I.ON THE DAY OF PICK UP I BOUGHT BOTH GUYS LUNCH. OVERTURE #1
Hi, we are the only place in NYC to audition Vincent Audio! Give us a call and come on in. Kerry Bright, the owner, loves to listen and talk shop!
Robert,
We've all seemed to weigh in at this point (at least as far as it seems you'll be able to get feedback from your post). Are you going to do anything with the feedback? Article or other post recognizing those retailers who stand out across the country?
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