Hard Times and the High End
Just recently a reader with the screen name "blackfly" posted this cogent comment to the thread on the $89k Magico M5 loudspeaker:
Personally, I very much like the M5, and would love to own a pair should I ever be able to afford it. And yes, the rest of the system would be commensurate with the needs of the M5. But I must admit reading the reviews/threads regarding this is somewhat amusing considering the fact the U.S. economy is on the brink of collapse and we are talking like nothing is happening. Some peoples' houses are not worth what the M5's are, yet it seems lost on some (perhaps most) that these speakers are on par with luxury cars, more actually if you factor in the room needed and the equipment to run it.
Does this mean I think the M5 is a waste or not worth it? No. In fact, I am sure (and I know a fair bit about CNC machining so I can appreciate the front baffle) it is superlative in every way but it is hard to hear clearly the music and subtle nuances when your stomach is growling because you cannot afford food. I suppose you could rationalize that if you are interested in this hobby you must have some means but the number who were and now are none is surprising, and considering most wealth is tied up in investments the very audience for gear like this is dwindling fast.
I think the audio world is going to take a real hit in the next year or so and it might include Magico. You do not make something the market cannot buy and it would be a real loss to see the M5 go but a reality nevertheless.
You can read my response to blackfly at www.avguide.com/forums/magico-m5-loudspeakers. But the issue he raises goes well beyond Magico M5s or the ultra-high end. The economy has affected buyers in every sector of the market, from budget to state of the art, because buyers in every sector scale their purchases to what they can afford--and today they can generally afford less. Moreover, even if they are still in a position to buy, many of them aren't because they're afraid to. No matter how much money you have in the bank you have to be able to give yourself psychological permission to spend it, and as we all know fewer are in the mood to do that right now.
To be honest, I don’t know what the future holds for high-end audio at any and all price points. I do know that many high-end companies are having a very bad year. (Magico, BTW, isn’t one of them.) God knows the rest of the economy is in such a shambles that what happens to our hobby seems, as blackfly says, the least of it. Everything depends on how deep this recession goes and how long it lasts, and at the moment no one can say.
What I do know is that, barring a second decade-long Great Depression, TAS will still be around to report on this little industry. And what I also known, as I said in different words to blackfly, is that amazing things like M5s and Soulution electronics would remain amazing even if there were no market for them.
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Comments
Hi Jonathan,
I've been a fan for years and respect your opinions. I am in the market for a new CD player and I love my Audio Research Ref 3 preamp and I know you have given great reviews to the Ref CD 7 player and was wondering if you are going to audition the new Ref CD 8 player and do a comparison. My alternative pick is the Esoteric X03-SE CD/SACD player. What is your take on it? Also, I have taken your advice about the Shunyata dark field elevators. They really do work. I also want to try the Shakti halographs but was wondering if it would be problematic for my setup since I have Magnepan 20.1s that have rear firing. Will the halographs mess this up if placed behind them? Should I position them in some other configuration? What are your recommendations?
Thanks,
Taj
Taj,
Thanks for the kind words!
I cannot recommend the ARC Ref CD8 over the Esoteric X03 (or vice versa) because I don't know the sound of the Esoteric unit well enough to make a judgment call. Esoteric digital gear has certainly been well reviewed in TAS. I'm glad you like the Shunyata Dark Field Cable Elevators; I do, too. As for Hallographs and dipoles, I use two sets of Shaktis with the MartinLogan CLXes--one about four or five feet in front of the panels (toward but not smack against the sidewalls) and one three or four feet behind the panels in the corners. You may have to fiddle with the Hallographs' orientation to get the soundfield you like best, but my experience with Hallographs and dipoles has been entirely positive. (Same with Hallographs and omnis like the 101 X-Tremes.)
Jon
Judging by the time you posted this blog, this IS keeping you up nights....
Times are tough, but there will always be a place for beauty and the people that create beauty.
Steven Stone
Contributor to The Absolute Sound, EnjoytheMusic.com, Vintage Guitar Magazine, and other fine publications
JV,
"But I must admit reading the reviews/threads regarding this is somewhat amusing considering the fact the U.S. economy is on the brink of collapse and we are talking like nothing is happening. Some peoples' houses are not worth what the M5's are, yet it seems lost on some (perhaps most) that these speakers are on par with luxury cars, more actually if you factor in the room needed and the equipment to run it."
Every morning I wake up and check cnn.com to see how much money I have lost in the stock market and everywhere you look there is more bad news. It is very refreshing though to pull up avguide.com and read about incredible engineering accomplishments like the M5. I don't want to read about the collapsing economy or how peoples home values are dropping. I want to dream about building and owning the best that audio has to offer. This is one of many speakers that people dream about and hope to be able to purchase in the future.
Due to this economic situation Ferrari started to see their sales drop and what was the first thing they did? No they did not make a cheap economical car that the masses can purchase. They pushed to the market in a hurry the new 599XX with a price over $500K to keep customers dreaming about having one.
"Moreover, even if they are still in a position to buy, many of them aren't because they're afraid to."
This is the exact reason why this economy is not getting back on its feet. It is a circle that we are stuck in. The more people hear bad news on TV and online they get more afraid and don't spend money but the more they don't spend money the worse it gets. If the media started to report on all the good things going on in this country then I am willing to bet we would be out of this recession faster than anyone things possible. Just a few thoughts,
I wish everyone the best,
Cole Hatfield
I think Nawrocka is onto something. There's so much bad news that it's great to dream about something that lifts one's spirits. That may be winning the lottery, driving a Ferrari 599XX, or owning a Magico M5 (or an SME 30/12, or a Pass X.5 amp, or a Koetsu Coralstone, etc.). Music is therapy for me, and I need it more now than ever. It doesn't cost anything to pull out a great album one already owns, and have what Maslow calls a "peak experience." Keep the stuff that fuels those dreams coming!
Thanks Jim,
I could not have said it any better. "Music is therapy". I would like to share one more short article made by a fellow distributor Mutine:
"Listening to music at home.... An activity that reconnects us, the listeners, with our creativity and imaginations. A retreat, a resting place for the spirit, a true meditation. A time to stop everything, to hold ourselves apart from the noise and disorder of daily life. For the musically passionate among us, this becomes the essence of daily life."
The great album/song for me lately has been "Lizz Wright" The Orchard number 6 "When I Fall" ... She has a voice that is something else.
Best Regards,
Cole Hatfield
Nawrocka Distribution
As long as there are people who love music and understand how pleasurable sitting down to a hi-fi system can be, I think the industry will endure a long recession (or depression). What I think it does mean is that some less-competitive companies and/or those without sufficient reserves of capital may not be able to weather this if it's gonna be protracted.
What I think the home hi-fi industry should be more concerned about is changing listening patterns in younger generations, who seem to have increasing difficulty concentrating on anything for more than ten seconds. As more people do their active listening on portable devices and in their car, there becomes less need for home stereo equipment. Home stereo equipment for a lot of younger people means their PC speakers. Younger peoples' main interest in home stereo equipment is mainly in the context of home theater (I'm pulling some of this out of my ass but I speak based on my own observations).
I'm at the younger end of the spectrum of TAS readers, I would suspect, but I care very little about listening to music away from my Magnepans. But I'm an exception to my generation. Most of my friends do their active listening in their cars or on their iPods. Devices that integrate portable players into home systems are cool, but that doesn't address the problem of introducing a largely clueless younger generation (my generation) to how involving and moving it can be to hear music through a good home stereo system, in a quiet environment. Some may disagree with what I say, but those who do would probably agree with me that this is a critical issue for the longevity of this industry- the overarching problem of getting a multi-tasking, scatterbrained generation, used to portable devices, interactivity, and staring glazedly at LCD screens, to take an interest in sitting in a chair in front of a stereo. If anything kills the hi-fi industry, it will not be a bad economy, but rather a slow death that stems from a younger generation that doesn't know what it's missing.
I should add, on a more positive note, that all of my friends are greatly impressed when they hear my modest system, especially the music lovers, who have no problem sitting for a session. It's mainly a problem of how younger people listen to music and when and where they want that to be.
As I sit here reading these conversations I think of what sustains me in these troubling economic times. Only a few seconds of contemplation led me to my heart and brain where I think the answer lies: Music. and visual / concepual esthetics (art, movies, etc.) contribute directly to my mental, emotional and spiritual well being. It lifts my spirit and makes me feel all warm and fuzzy. This makes these scarry financial times more bearable by providing a framework for emotional fullfillment. These things are valuable because they provide visual and auditory pleasure. Although they are not on the same level as the absolute necessities (food, mental and physical health, shelter), the joy that I receive from sound and visual escape is important enough to have a place in my budget.
I agree that young people may not enjoy music the same way that we do (I'm middle aged). I think that as they grow older they will mature and come to understand that the the two music delivery models (portable and stationary) are essentially designed for for different and complimentary purposes. I engage in both modalities.....portable for when I'm moving around and multi-tasking and therefore less focused.....and a fixed home based systems where one can focus on the enjoyment of the pure art itself and fully appreciate all the nuances contained therein. You will never be able to enjoy this kind of discrete multi-channel sound on an i-Pod. This audio soundstage superiority coupled with true high definition video experience on a large screen is what makes movie watching and listening to well recorded music so awsome. This is possible only on a home based fixed entertainment system. There is simply nothing comparable to this in any form of portable small screen video or 'ear-bud' audio devices. I suspect that your level of sophistocation increases with maturity.
It is what it is. When the economy gets better people who genuely seek and appreciate sensual gratification (and most people do) will continue to be attracted to fixed home based systems. Vision and hearing are important sources of gratification for most of us.
Electronic hardware is the vehicle that brings all this spirit-lifting joy to my own special personal home theater environment. That equipment has to perform well to provide the fidelity and clarity of experience I crave. When it does so it will help me get through this economic recession (and other stressful events) intact. I make no apologies for engaging in an ongoing pursuit of those things that bring such pleasure.
We all have egos and we all care about the impressions of other people to some extent. However when it comes to my personal choices in audiovisual entertainment, my ultimate decisions are based purely on personal preference and affordability. I seek to gratify only myself. For example, when I reach the point where the limits of my vision or hearing can no longer determine the difference between the quality of one display and another or one level of sound fidelity and the next 'higher' level, I stop there. For me there is no need to seek some higher end product just for the sake of saying I have it.,
Before I reach the point of purchase I practice due diligence by researching available information as well as reviewing expert opinion and visiting audiovisual showrooms. I am thankful for wonderful forums like this for making that part of the decision- making process more efficient and fun. THE INFORMATION AND EXPERIENCE SHARING FOUND HERE IS INVALUABLE.
I delayed the purchase of a Blu-ray player until now. After significant deliberation, i decided on the Panasonic BD55 (they're getting scarce now since initially they were so well reviewed and are just now being discontinued to be replaced with a model with different numbers and letters after the Panasonic name). At the time of this writing I'm still anxiously waiting for delivery.
I have no plans to replace my six year old receiver (Denon AVR-4802R). I have a 7.1 sound set-up and this receiver provides an abundance of applications.. It is currently the switching station for seven components...A Sony DVD/CD recorder/player, a Sony 100 disc player, a Yahama CD player/recorder, a RCA VCR, a JVC DVD player that also reads and displays JPEG photos via a slot for Compact Flash media, a TEAC dual cassette player/recorder, a turntable, and a DVR cable box. I would bet that by now you are expecting me to add a 'reel- to- reel' tape recorder. OK I had one at one time but I'm not that retro!!
The Denon AVR-4802 is indeed a BEAST. It is powered by a thousand rompin' stopin' horses (watts). It is fully capable of speaking discretely but authoratively through the seven voices (speakers) that are at its disposal; Two front Monitor R S 8's, a Revel C 12 center spkr, a Velodyne DLS-4000R sub woofer and 4 Blueprint 520 di-bipole spkrs (also discontinued) that are strategically placed in the ceiling of my listening room. A Mitsubishi WS48515 1080i rear projection (CRT) Television produces a quite competent visual display. I also utilize the Denon receiver's ability to deliver signals to two speakers in another room. I think this is referred to as 'multi-zoning'. My AVR-4802R is connected to an Onkyo amplifier that pumps up its audio signal to specifically serve the two speakers in the other room. These connections are quite complex so I am really looking forward to accessing the rear of this receiver to insert the eight or so additional analog audio cables that will come from the new Blu-ray player (...not really!!!).
My AVR is currently hooked up to do all these tasks and it does them very well. I have no intention of replacing it anytime soon. I try to buy really good equipment (within the limits of my budget of course) and then put it to maximum use. This way it provides the sort of pleasure that I referred to at the beginning of this too lenghty writing. I also believe that 'If it ain't broke, don't fix (replace) it'.
So I ordered the Panasonic BD55 knowing that it was recently discontinued. Its 7.1 analog hook-up possibilites allow it to fit perfectly into my system and philosophy. Most of the reviews would seem to indicate that the Panasonic Corporation seems to have gotten this one correct right out ot the box. After the device is delivered my goal is to program the audio outputs so that the sound goes squarely to the 'sweet spot' in my listening / viewing room where I renew and sustain my spirit.daily.
I don't absolutely require nor can I afford everything to be 'high-end'. However I do seek equipment exquisitely suited for my own particular needs. The investment in a Blu-ray player is quite small compared to the total value of my home theater system components.. The time for adding this device to my system finally seems right. It now clearly appears that the DVD-HD vs. BLU-ray squabble is over and Blu-ray won. In the ongoing Blu-ray vs. Blu-ray wars, the situation is more fluid. However a near consensus seems to be developing that the Panosonic BD 55 is the current value and performance leader. This decision could be complicated (as is often the case with the purchases of electronics) by the sheer nummber of porducts available in any given catagory.
My thanks to A / V Guide Forum for helping to make the choice of what to buy and how to set it up so much easier and so much more fun.
- Jaw2th -
Jaw2th
it's not a hobby it's a racket
I would like to thank JV for using my post to bring about a bigger issue. I am flattered, really, and as long as I made someone, or people, think beyond the obvious then I am happy.
Our hobby cannot exist without a soundroom or abode to house the gear in and us to listen to it. Moreover, it needs ears to hear it that are not distracted by something; ANYTHING, to appreciate what is going on.
I think the economic effect is VERY real. Hunt on Ebay. You can find MANY vintage Marantz pieces for sale. When times are tough the money matters more..... Personally I hope Magico stays around, but really I think the audio world needs a shake to allow a lot of flakes to fall to the ground. This same thing happened in the mountain bike world in the late 90's of which I am VERY fluent. Sometimes a crash separates the cream from the milk and everyone is better for it.
I still think the pricing, not just of the Magicos but high end in general, is due for a correction. I think it is a case of wildfire running rampant and needs to be doused. With all the money being lost in the market if you translated that to gear you would have one hell of a system. My RRSP took a $8000 hit. Imagine what I could get with that.
I have a nice system. EVERY piece is bought and paid for. There will be no repo regardless. It is comforting knowing that although my system is not where I want it to be it IS at a level where I can be happy every night and know that tomorrow it will still be there and I there for it. Things will turn around, but not overnight so my advice: enjoy what you have and you might find out how good it really is. For many I think they will be using it for a long time.