First Listen: Lexicon BD-30 universal Blu-ray player
I first saw the Lexicon BD-30 universal Blu-ray player in the Harman International display booth at CEDIA 2009 where my initial impression was that it looked like a heavily overbuilt, upscale, Lexicon-themed interpretation of an Oppo BDP-83. The similarities were striking enough that I asked my booth tour guide if Lexicon had teamed with Oppo in developing the BD-30 and he replied (mistakenly as it turns out) that the BD-30 had been developed solely by Lexicon. On the basis of that information, I immediately requested a review sample.
Once my review sample of the BD-30 arrived (toward the end of 2009) and I got a chance to inspect the player closely and to put it through its paces. In the process, I became even more convinced that there must have been some collaboration between Oppo and Lexicon in creating the BD-30 (there are many physical similarities between the machines in terms of control and I/O layouts, and the user interfaces are similar, too). Accordingly, I asked again whether Oppo and Lexicon had worked on the BD-30 and learned that in fact they had. Marc Kellom, Harman International’s head of High Performance A/V products, indicated that the same supplier that builds the Oppo player in its entirety manufactures core elements of the BD-30 in China. Final assembly, firmware loading, and quality control testing for the BD-30, however, take place in Lexicon’s facility based in Elkhart, Indiana.
Kellom explained that during the development of both players, Lexicon had evaluated the then-current Oppo design and suggested some video-related changes—changes that were eventually incorporated in production versions of both players. Similarly, Lexicon bore the costs of having the Oppo design put through conformance testing relative to various worldwide consumer safety standards and to put it through THX qualification testing, again leading to changes that were incorporated into both players.
Knowing that it would sell its version of the player through its upscale, service-oriented retail dealer channel (where the standing expectation is that dealers will provide expert custom installation/integration services), Lexicon decided that its version of the player would need several changes vis-à-vis a standard Oppo player. First, it required a significant more beefy and elegant looking chassis (and one strong enough to support rack mounting), plus firmware modifications that would make the player easier for dealers to integrated with other Lexicon high-performance A/V products (e.g., the MC-12). Second, the player required formal THX certification—if only for the sake of consistency with other THX-certified Lexicon products. Third, the BD-30 would need to ship with somewhat different accessories than those that come with the standard Oppo player, including a set of rack-mounting “ears” plus a copy of the well-regarded Joe Kane Productions Digital Video Essentials HD Basics, Blu-ray Edition HD set-up toolkit disk.
The upshot, then, is that the BD-30 takes the core chassis, circuit boards, and drive mechanism of a standard Oppo BDP-83 universal Blu-ray player, and mounts them within a heavily built Lexicon enclosure, “re-flashes” the player’s firmware EPROMs with Lexicon-spec code, and then performs its own battery of final quality control tests in the US.
In practice this means the BD-30, like the Oppo upon which it is based, is an incredibly versatile, multi-format disk player that delivers exemplary video quality and very, very good (though definitely not state-of-the-art) sound quality. The BD-30 can handle Blu-ray, DVD-Video, SACD, HDCD, and CD disks without breaking a sweat. Interestingly, the BD-30’s manual indicates that the player cannot handle DVD-Audio disks, though in fact it can and does.
But there is an element of controversy surrounding the Lexicon BD-30, and it has to do with pricing. The BD-30, you see, sells for quite a lot more money than the Oppo: $3499 for the BD-30 vs. $499 for the BDP-83. At first blush, the extra $3000 seems a heavy price to pay for enhanced chassis casework, revised firmware, and a few extra accessories, leading some skeptical online A/V pundits and consumers/forum participants to cry “foul!” As it turns out, however, some of the Oppo’s most vociferous critics turn out to be “reviewer/journalists” who in fact work for organizations that are online resellers of the Oppo. So much for impartiality and fairness…
One key point I think many people miss (or simply choose to ignore) is that, with the Lexicon, you aren’t just buying the player, but also the highly-supportive expert dealer network that stands behind it—a factor that, in my experience, means much more to some prospective buyers than to others. Though consumers sometimes pretend otherwise, the fact is that the benefits of a good dealer network are tangible and, yes, costly. Bluntly, rock-solid dealer networks don’t come for free.
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Comments
Chris, I appreciate your politic remarks and I understand the fine line you need to walk with how to make those remarks, but let's call a spade, a spade. Rebadging an Oppo BDP-83 (an excellent universal Blueray player with decent sound quality) and adding $3000 for a fancier chassis is just a losing value proposition, irrespective of the dealer network support, and is tantamount to defrauding customers. Compare this to Ayre's upcoming DX-5, which is openly admitting to using the Oppo's transport and video board but entirely rebuilding the audio section (from the DAC to the analog output section) and charging $8K. In this case, eventhough, the DX-5 may be more than 2 times the cost of the Lexicon but it will probably be the better value between the two players (again depending on the execution on the audio section of the player) because they are adding their expertise and proprietary DAC and analog output design to the player to elevate the audio performance of that player to true audiophile levels. Lexicon should be ashamed for its lack of transparency and its pricing strategy on this player. For those interested to get better audio performance from the BDP-83, they should look at the SE version with the ESS DAC and improved op amp in the analog output section (as your recent blog with early impressions attested to), as well as the Nuforce editions of that player, as well as Dan Wright's mods for the player.
cmalak
Thanks for your thoughtful comments. I think Lexicon faces three problems here.
1) At least some journalists (I was one of them) were initially told in no uncertain terms that the BD-30 was developed entirely by Lexicon, which just isn't true. I understand that people make mistakes, but even so it is not a good sign when the presentation script changes radically after the fact.
2) The BD-30 is based on the Oppo BDP-83, which is fine in my book, but is priced not just a little but a LOT higher. Although retail sales models do call for higher prices, I don't think that the shift to a retail model alone accounts for the very large price difference we see here.
3) The BD-30 does not, apart from its somewhat quieter mechanical operation, improve upon the A/V performance of the Oppo BDP-83, which creates (understandable) feelings of disappointment (and, for some, bitterness, anger, outrage, etc.). But the core issue is that the BD-30 fails to live up to our expectations for what a Lexicon product should be; namely, something that provides truly **exceptional** performance. So, we feel let down--as if we've been offered a very good product where, both on the basis of price and the brand name involved, we might have expected a GREAT product.
There's nothing wrong with basing high-end products on the Oppo, but I think you're absolutely right that the better approach is to do the hard work necessary to build in meaningful improvements.
Best,
Chris Martens
Chris Martens
Editor, Avguide.com/Playback/The Perfect Vision
It sounds to me that given the recent upgrade options available with the Oppo BDP-83, the choice becomes an absolute "no brainer"!
The Vertu of BD players perhaps?
LexiCON
While I do see the point that Lexicon's highly-supportive expert dealer network may add to the price, but those services are not free are they? If I have my dealer come out and install the Lexicon, he is going to charge me for his time.
Johnboy
One can purchase 5 Oppo players for the cost of one Lexicon. This is Harmon's idea of High Performance...?. More like High Profit!.
Can or Why don't you call it like it actually is-Lexicon got caught trying to screw over the Audio/Video end user of its products.
Any and all other attempts to excuse Lexicon from their actions is an INSULT to an already disgraceful situation.
WOW-Make it 7 Oppo players for the cost of one Lexicon.
we dont need a service if we use Oppo, if it fail we just buy new one, even new model in the future which will sure be better than Lexicon current Oppo clone.
We can do that 7 times before cost equal one Lexicon.
And I think those who buy BD player can connect it to processor by themself. No need for any special installation from dealer.
TOGA,
You write that "I think those who buy BD player can connect it to processor by themself. (sic) No need for any special installation from dealer."
I think a truer statement is that some prospective customers can handle the intricacies of universal player setup, while others cannot. Those in the latter group really DO need help either from a dealer of from knowledgeable, A/V-savvy friends.
Note, too, that those who don't speak "A/V setup" are not stupid people. I know of a talented private pilot who finds A/V set-up very daunting. If you've taken a look at the body of material that private pilots must master before being granted their licenses, I think you might agree that it is harder (a LOT harder) to fly an airplane than it is to set up an Oppo or Lexicon. Even so, my friend can do airplanes with ease, but not A/V system set-up tasks.
My point is that dealer services can be worth a great deal to those who don't know (or simply don't have the time or inclination to learn) the "ins" and "outs" of A/V system technology. For you and for me this is a cherished hobby that we enjoy mastering, but for some (perhaps many) consumers, A/V gear is purely a means to an end; namely, watching movies or listening to music. I say, more power to them...
Best,
Chris Martens
Chris Martens
Editor, Avguide.com/Playback/The Perfect Vision
Grow a pair. Stop beating about the bush. The only reason you are hedging is because of the revelations on the audioholics site. There is no way your publication would have the temerity to expose Harman's shameful scam. Now that you have to deal with the revelations, you post this blog/review...I don't know what to call it.
Sundar,
As it happens, my questions about the origins of the Lexicon BD-30 arose completely independently from the Audioholics article, and I would have published this blog regardless.
Bear in mind that I was one of those journalists initially told (by a Harman representative at CEDIA) that the BD-30 was a Lexicon-developed product (as I pointed out in my blog). Once I had a review sample in hand, I felt certain the player was either an Oppo or at least Oppo-derived, so I posed the question to Harman/Lexicon again. The second time around, I received confirmation that there was indeed, as Intel might phrase it, an "Oppo inside."
I'm of two minds on the situation we find with the Lexicon BD-30.
On one hand, if the Oppo BDP-83 itself were sold through retail dealer channels with normal profit margins applied, I believe its MSRP would be anywhere from 2X to perhaps 3X the price Oppo currently charges for the product when selling it online on a manufacturer-direct basis. So, I'm not upset or offended that the BD-30 costs more than an Oppo does, since I understand very clearly that at least part of the price jump comes with the shift to a retail sales model.
On the other hand, my (and perhaps your?) sense is that Harman/Lexicon is really overreaching by setting the BD-30's MSRP at $3500. At that price, I personally would expect the BD-30 to deliver noticeably better performance than the Oppo upon which it is based. As I said in my blog, I think customers might have expected more, purely in terms of wanting more value for their money.
But there is another problem, too. Most of us, I think, would like to have seen Lexicon offer a product that delivers the elevated standard of performance implied by the Lexicon brand name. To my way of thinking, people do not buy Lexicon products in hopes of getting merely good or even very good performance (which the BD-30 certainly delivers). Rather, they buy them with the expectation of getting components that offer well and truly **exceptional** performance (which the BD-30 does not). Good though the BD-30 may be, it is no better than the Oppo, which under the circumstances is a disappointment, pure and simple.
Best,
Chris Martens
Chris Martens
Editor, Avguide.com/Playback/The Perfect Vision
How disappointing this review is. It sounds like something that would come out of a congressman's mouth. The Lexicon IS the Oppo with a 3k surcharge! The professional dealer network you refer to does not exist. Shame on you for such a weenie review.
Bill Thomas,
Please note that this is not a review; it's a blog that falls under our "First Listen" content category. Given that the BD-30 does not improve upon the core A/V performance of the Oppo BDP-83, I elected not to review it.
As I said in my blog, at this price point I think customers might have expected more than the BD-30 has to offer.
Regarding the existence of the Lexicon dealer network, I think you're mistaken. I'd send you photos of a Lexicon dealership to prove this point, but it sounds to me as if you're not really open to being confronted with the facts.
Best,
Chris Martens
Chris Martens
Editor, Avguide.com/Playback/The Perfect Vision
My God - what a gutless wonder you are, unwilling to call Lexicon's actions for what they are - a scam. You should be ashamed, apparently being critical of a high-end company that is providing little added value to a product and simply inflates the price is what, forbidden? You are not a journalist - you are simply a stenographer for the pr department of Lexicon.
mgdixon18
Please don't mistake my sense of civility or fair play for timidity.
For me and for The Perfect Vision, it's a big deal to decline to review a product.
As I think my blog demonstrates, Harman/Lexicon made three mistakes with the BD-30.
1) They initially told some journalists (I was one of them) that the BD-30 was their own design, which it is not. Obviously, it's based on Oppo's BDP-83. To its credit, however, Lexicon later amended its story to reflect this fact.
2) Lexicon gave the BD-30 a very high MSRP. This is partly due to a shift to a retail pricing model, and would be fine if the BD-30 demonstrably outperformed the Oppo. But the fact, as I stated, is that the BD-30 doesn't outperform the Oppo.
3) Because the BD-30 fails to improve upon the performance of the BDP-83, it also falls short of our expectations for what a "real" Lexicon product should be and do.
I see the three items above as mistakes on Lexicon's part, but not necessarily as some malicious "scam."
If you look around a bit, you'll find a number of high-end players that are based on the Oppo. What makes some of them different, though, is that their manufacturers are not only improving chassis casework (as Lexicon has done), but also making various circuit changes aimed toward improving performance in demonstrable ways.
Best,
Chris Martens
Chris Martens
Editor, Avguide.com/Playback/The Perfect Vision
Just buy an Oppo bd83 with hardware that will play blu-ray and dvd's from any regon on the planet. You will save money and have many great years of viewing pleasure..........
Best of luck to Lexicon trying to sell these players after being exposed. This kind of repackaging will only hurt Lexicon's reputation. A price reduction seems appropriate here or just pull the player off the market.
Lexicon should do the honorable thing and withdraw this piece from the market.
Such a shame...
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/transports/high-definition-dvd-player...
Very disapointing- total loss of credibility for Perfect Vision
Oh good lord, really? Because some reviewers may also "work for resellers of Oppo" that is their motivation for exposing the biggest fraud in the A/V community is probably forever?!? Really? Seriously? You actually wrote that? Audioholics should get a medal for honesty. Avguide.com is officially off my reading list and I am unsubscribing from your email newsletter right now. Pathetic.
Well, I have an Oppo BDP-83 upgraded to the SE. At least Lexicon chose the best player. I think it's unconscionable for anyone to mark up a product that much, however, and I think AVGuide, like HTR should be ashamed of themselves for condoning this and defending Lexicon. Shame on you.
Wow what a crock of ____ this column is.
How about comparing them and then say something. This whole site and magazines have become nothing but a pile of ______.
We learn nothing, you say nothing and that is what they pay you for?
What a joke!
BTW i sell neither and dont care either but reading this is an insult.
For those who don't know mst audio/video products are not entirely made by the company that sells them. Very few companies today are vertically integrated including the ones this site pushes.
Elliot Goldman,
I know this may be hard for you, but please try to calm down and think carefully before speaking.
1) I did compare the Lexicon BD-30 and the Oppo BDP-83. Apart from the fact that the BD-30 is mechanically quieter in operation than the BDP-83, there are--as I said in my blog--no discernible differences between the A/V performance characteristics of the two players. But that's really the crux of the problem, isn't it?
2) You say you learned "nothing." Did you already know that Lexicon's early testing and evaluation of the Oppo design led to changes that, in the end, affected both players? I didn't know that until I interviewed Harman's Marc Kellom and thought that readers might find the information interesting. But, maybe that's just me.
3) If I may say so, you are awfully quick to take offense where none has been given, and then to declare you've been subjected to "an insult." I can't imagine it can be much fun for you to walk around in a perpetual state of outrage, but I suppose it's your choice to make...
Best,
Chris Martens
Chris Martens
Editor, Avguide.com/Playback/The Perfect Vision
I suspect this review was written as a way to generate traffic off an already hot article that was discussed in great detail on all the major forums last week.
The reviewer here claims he "requested" a review sample. Did he actually have a product in hand to validate that it was quiter than the Oppo. This review smells of the same antics that Hometheaterreview.com tried to pull with their alleged review. What a joke this article is.
Jacob Stanton,
Yes, I do have the Lexicon BD-30 in hand, along with an Oppo BDP-83 and an Oppo BDP-83SE. Yes, the BD-30 is, in a mechanical sense, quieter in operation than either of the Oppos. My practice is to comment on performance differences I've observed firsthand, and always has been.
In terms of A/V performance, however, there is no functional difference between the BD-30 and the BDP-83, as I stated in my blog.
Best,
Chris Martens
Chris Martens
Editor, Avguide.com/Playback/The Perfect Vision
@Elliot Goldman -
Sir,
I find that the one of the things more disturbing than such unethical shenanigans on the part of manufacturers is the unbridled rudeness of forum posters who are unable to express their point of view without the crutch of ad hominem attacks and profanity. It seems to me that the author has clearly stated his experience with the manufacturer and the product, duly provided this information and expressed his opinion on the matter. Because he does not express the proper amount of righteous indignation (the emotional affliction du jour), many other posters are personally offended.
I shudder for our society that we are entirely unable to elevate our discourse and engage in polite, respectful, and reasoned debate, over subjects so ultimately trivial as this.
Mr. Goldman, I must say that even though I agree with some of your sentiment, the manner in which you have expressed it leads me to the conclusion that I will never, ever set foot inside your retail establishment, for fear of being treated with the same lack of respect that you so evidently express here, and which you apparently do not worry about associating with your establishment, as fine as it may be. Frankly, this attitude is at least as detrimental to the future of high-end audio and its retail presence than the misdeeds of some manufacturers.
meatyb0y Choi
I totally agree. Well said.
Chris, the problem with your blog is that it reads like you are closer to excusing Lexicon's actions than to condemning them...
You talk about "mistakes" being made by Lexicon, where as most other persons regard this as a scam....
I don't regard telling journalists that the Lexicon is an original product to be a mistake, I see that as being most likely and attempt to mislead people... I see slapping on a pretty new faceplate on a cheaper product not as a mistake (they didn't forget to improve audio and video performance - they chose not to) but as an attempt to mislead potential buyers....
I see nothing excusable in what Lexicon chose to do and no justification for paying 7x the price of the Oppo.... This is not a case of fans being disappointed as you phrased it, but of them feeling totally ripped off...
If ---- offends you then I am sorry however the offensive nature of this whole blog really offends me. It is things like this that have seriously damged the business I was brought up in and loved. The lack of standards and ethics in reviewing is aweful. The thought that you judge someone based on three sentences is well .... ( fill in your own comment)
Chris,
On the one hand, I think you've a fair job of assessing the shortcomings of the Lexicon unit and has made it patently clear that it is not in any material way superior to the Oppo. That's certainly more than can be said of some other journalists who continue to claim that the Lexicon is a superior unit in some meaningful way other than just chassis quality.
On the other hand, I have 3 issues with your post. First, the comment "some of the Oppo’s most vociferous critics turn out to be “reviewer/journalists” who in fact work for organizations that are online resellers of the Oppo. So much for impartiality and fairness…" is just flat out incorrect and unfair. The most vociferous critics are members of the general public who have posted online about the subject. As far as I know, only one Audioholics reviewer has criticized Lexicon, and he did so in the review which put forth almost exactly the same criticisms as you have, albeit worded differently. Your comment suggests that because of the potential conflict of interest, his criticisms may not be valid. That would be a fair observation except for the fact that you go on to completely validate those criticisms, which leaves the impression that the sole reason for your comment is to take a cheap shot at the credibility of Audioholics reviewers.
Second, you acknowledge that you were blatantly lied to about the development of the BD-30, and you don't question the veracity any of any of their subsequent statements about what they actually did and why they did it - you simply put forth those statements as if they are fact. This brings up the third issue I have, which is that you've entirely ignore the elephant in the room - Lexicon's credibility, or lack thereof.
The real story here is the Lexicon has lied to journalists and consumers about their product. Lexicon flat out lied to you about the development of their product. Lexicon continues to claim that the BD-30 offers audio and visual performance advantages over the Oppo in the face of unimpeachable evidence to the contrary. Lexicon has perpetrated and perpetuated these falsehoods for the sole purpose of justifying the 700% mark-up over the Oppo. I don't understand how any journalist could NOT call Lexicon out over this. You've done a thorough job of criticizing the product, but you haven't really criticized Lexicon's conduct at all, and I don't buy your explanation that you're just being civil and engaging in fair play. Either you don't recognize the significance of this issue, which would suggest that you are less astute than I know you are, or you are in fact being timid and cautious for reasons about which I can only speculate (and therefore won't).
K. Rick,
You offer some fair criticisms that I will keep in mind going forward.
Regarding the matter of Lexicon changing their story on the origins of the player, I should provide some additional information that may help explain my apparent lack of outrage. From comparing notes with other journalists who visited the Harman booth at CEDIA, I found that some got the story I did (i.e., "...the BD-30 is a Lexicon-developed product...") while others got the correct story (i.e., "...the BD-30 was developed in collaboration with Oppo using their universal Blu-ray player platform..."). This leads me to think there was no calculated master plan to deceive, but rather that some Harman staffers simply got the story wrong. That's not good (which is why I mentioned the change of story in my blog), but in fairness I would hesitate to call it deliberate deception (otherwise, why would some Harman staffers have told other journalists about the Oppo relationship?).
I probably should have spent more time commenting on the matter of price, because the gap between $499 and $3499 is obviously quite significant. My belief is that part of that gap--and a pretty big part at that--is caused by the shift from a manufacturer-direct sales model to a retail sales model. Another part of the gap is attributable to the cost of the new chassis casework and to doing final assembly and testing in the US. But at the end of the day, I also think that the product's price is much too high for what you get, and I probably should have stated that opinion more forcefully in my blog.
You write that "Lexicon continues to claim that the BD-30 offers audio and visual performance advantages over the Oppo in the face of unimpeachable evidence to the contrary." I am unaware of this. When I spoke with Harman's Marc Kellom, the only three advantages he spoke of were the BD-30's mechanically quieter operations (which I verified in A/B comparisons with the Oppos), the fact that the BD-30 chassis supports rack mounting (true), and the fact that the BD-30 was available through retail dealers who could provide support, installation, and integration services--especially vis-a-vis other Lexicon A/V components (also true, at least for some Lexicon dealers). In talking with me, Kellom acknowledged that in terms of A/V performance the Lexicon and Oppo players were essentially identical. While that is disappointing, to be sure, it doesn't seem to imply any desire on Harman's part to "perpetrate and perpetuate falsehoods."
At the end of the day, the issue pretty much distills down to this: Lexicon is asking a very high price for a player whose performance does not fully justify that price, and whose performance also does not live up to the very high standards we hold for the Lexicon brand name.
My intent, even if imperfectly executed, was to lay out the facts about the BD-30 for readers, yet without rushing in to judge Harman/Lexicon for what might well be nothing more than a handful of ill-considered product marketing decisions.
What I do think--and again, I probably should have stated this more clearly and strongly in my blog--is that Lexicon is guilty of failing to "go the extra mile" in terms of building a higher performance player that goes well beyond what the standard Oppo can do. That's obviously something Lexicon could have done and, in my opinion, should have done in this case.
Thank you again for your very thoughtful comments.
Best,
Chris Martens
Chris Martens
Editor, Avguide.com/Playback/The Perfect Vision
The mark-up over the Oppo would be 600%(using 3500 versus 500).
Apologies for the ridiculous number of typos and grammatical errors in my post. The ridiculously small comment dialogue box isn't exactly conducive to proof reading (nor for that matter is my constantly ringing phone).
Stereotypes in Portland , Or, a very good High End audio store carries the Oppo BDP-83 at the same price as buying direct from Oppo. They carry the complete Oppo line.
The staff is very knowledgeable and have great service.
Chris;
Your article reads more as a defense to Lexicon's shameless practice of cloning an identical product with a 7x upcharge claiming its better than the cloned product and more of an attack against the integrity of the writers at Audioholics.com that first discovered this issue. You allege your article to be a more unbiased opinion of the product than what was originally reported by said publication, yet you've done no real comparison analysis.
Chris,
Your response to K. Rick sums it up nicely... You really should put those points in the blog... it would make everything clear... At the end of the day, many of us really wanted to be clear on your opinion of what Lexicon has offered to the market for 7x the Oppo's pice... and your response does just that...
Re: Lexicon versus Oppo - it is interesting to note that Theta Digital has announced a BD player using the Oppo transport but claims substantial additions to both hardware, internal construction and software. One might presume that this will be better sounding that the Oppo. Still it is $2995.00 but at least it would appear you will get a bunch more for your money.
Who is not able to install and to set up a simple AV player like the Lexicon BD30, deserve to pay 5/7 times plus the price of OPPO BD-83 or SE version at the same or best performance. Sorry, but is a matter of the nature laws of evolution.
Oh my god Chris, that is simply embarrassing.
You write "At the end of the day, the issue pretty much distills down to this: Lexicon is asking a very high price for a player whose performance does not fully justify that price, and whose performance also does not live up to the very high standards we hold for the Lexicon brand name."
That's totally misleading, and it seems to serve only to try to deflect valid criticism from your below-standard blog.
The real issue is that Lexicon are being deceptive and are (to use the colloquial term) scamming customers. Your comments trying to justify the additional price as paying for a dealer networks etc are irrelevant and plain silly. For $3,000 I can buy an awful lot of third-party setup assistance, and if an Oppo player actually failed (which would presumably be no more likely than with the Lexicon), with an extra $3000 in my pocket I'd just go and buy a new one.
Your point about this unit not living up to its price tag is merely the icing on the embarrassing and deceptive cake.
You also do not appear to be capable of understanding the thrust of the points being made against your review, i.e. that your review does not clearly come out and say what everyone intuitively understands and feels, i.e. Lexicon are acting dishonourably, unprofessionally, and - let's call a spade a spade - dishonestly. Your comments in reply to these criticisms read as purely defensive, and you come across as avoiding answering your critics' overall points by replying very narrowly. This is understandable as it's tough to accept that you're wrong, but you would come across as far more professional if you just put your hands up and admitted a major error here.
Worst of all, this is certainly not the first time that your reviews have received negative comments for professionalism/honesty/etc. I'll certainly not be reading this site any longer.
"At first blush, the extra $3000 seems a heavy price to pay for enhanced chassis casework, revised firmware, and a few extra accessories, leading some skeptical online A/V pundits and consumers/forum participants to cry “foul!” As it turns out, however, some of the Oppo’s most vociferous critics turn out to be “reviewer/journalists” who in fact work for organizations that are online resellers of the Oppo. So much for impartiality and fairness…"
Let's get down to brass tacks - there's no "first blush" about it. For what you get, the Lexicon is a complete ripoff of the worst kind and to accuse the original reviewers who discovered this chicanery as being out to get Lexicon because their online store sells Oppo is stooping very low...perhaps even into slanderous territory. Either call it like it is or get out of the reviewer business.
We all know why these rags are defensive. They make money from the Lexicon's of the world to positively review their products. It's legalized prostitution (or maybe extortion, depending on your point of view). So, for instance, AVguide can't be so indignant about Lexicon's deception because Lexicon will pull the advertising plug. And AVguide isn't the only offender here. All these rags are the same — even Audioholics, which probably doesn't get Lexicon advertising and so could expose the player as an Oppo clone with impunity (and that may actually be the insinuation you are hearing here).
My point is that we shouldn't be so indignant — we just should learn the lesson that you can't trust these publications for anything but finding out what is new. For god's sake, don't take their recommendations!
Wow! A lot of commentary about a pure and simple re-badged Oppo player for a ridiculous 3 grand. I have been buying audio and video equipment for almost 40 years. When will companies stop trying to insult educated buyers with "puff of smoke" advertising? I ALWAYS operate on the premise of buying gear that makes a REAL auditory or visual difference. Just because it costs more definitely does not guarantee audio or video nirvana. comgrats to Oppo for "keeping it real". Shame on Lexicon for attempting to thrust a product on the market without true video or audio benefit.
I just noticed 3 Lexicon banners when touring this site for content. Hmmm.....
What really galls me is all the ass-covering by most editors in the media, using words like "based-on" and "supposedly" (see the latest poll in Stereophile). Facts are facts, the Lexicon BD-30 *IS* an Oppo BD-83 and is nothing more than a shameful attempt by Harman int'l to rip off customers. The only editors have demonstrated as having a pair are the editors of Audioholics. It all comes down to integrity in journalism being compromised by a conflict of interest, a conflict created by the need to generate advertising revenue. It is precisely for this reason that both J. Gordon Holt and Harry Pearson started their respective publications as subscription only, with no advertising, so as not to create any possibility of a conflict of interest.
This was a good article that will probably save many readers from wasting $3,000. Thank you for that. The facts presented by Chris are more than sufficient to effectively expose the rip-off and I, for one, could not care less whether Chris chooses to be polite or nasty in his associated criticisms of Lexicon.
When someone says "look out for the dog poop!" you shouldn't criticise their polite dialogue but rather you should be thankful it is not squelching between your toes.
Congrats to Oppo for making an affordable, great sounding and looking player that the so-called "High-End" manufacturers are trying to copy. I have the utmost respect for those companies that know how to make great performing Hi-Fi equipment at Mid-Fi prices. (By the way, I've always LOATHED the term "Mid-Fi". Reminds me of the past when I would read those old Stereophile "reviews" back in the day (when they were digest sized, overpriced little magazines).
I can't help thinking that some people must get very high blood pressure, the way they speak in their replies.
The industry that we are in, or participate in, is governed by one rule, and one rule only. If you produce something that is not worth the money, fails to operate in a manner befitting its price, or is simply not intrinsically of value to the buying public - it will fail.
As a company, do it several times, and you will fail along with your products.
To my knowledge Lexicon has produced over the years several good products, one or two average things and a number of frankly exceptional things.
The BD-30 is not going to be counted as the latter. Although, it won't also be counted as the former. It is a good player, it does work better with Lexicon components than an Oppo does, but sadly, it does not outperform the model that was developed along side it. Which, given its greatly increased cost, makes it poor value for money.
However, being poor value for money does not make it rubbish. More importantly, I suspect that it will also not make it a complete sales failure for Lexicon, and not because people won't be aware of what it is based upon. What they have done is to cash in on an already fine design and then to overcharge their part in this when producing their version. This is a shame, and will no doubt have ramifications on their bottom line, which will, I am sure, reflect on future designs and releases of further product.
For those of you who accuse Chris Martens of being bought, or lying, then I can only see that you need to do some harsh growing up to join the real world of economics.
If the player is way too expensive for its worth - regardless of its design roots - it will not sell. More importantly, if this is your opinion, then you must vote with your pockets - to do this, simply don't buy. This will filter through to Lexicon, and I am sure, the reflection of this will be that the machine will either drop in price, or be replaced by a more heavily developed version.
The big world works in such a way that to expect any magazine, business or person therefore related, to completely bawl out a company is quite frankly ridiculous. If your boss did something wrong regarding their working relationship with you, the likelihood of you commenting and asking for the issue to be improved upon, I would hope, is high. The likelihood of you charging into their office and calling them names and shouting in rage is (aside that which people may boast to their friends) low.
The buying public needs companies to manufacture products, to notice things and to see that they exist we need adverts or reliable and profitable dealers, we need people to look at those products and get opinions of them, the manufacturers need to pay for advertising to support these services. For this money, they will expect at least a fair opinion on what the product does, and I can find nowhere in Chris Martens comments where he appears to be dishonest - the fact that you do not like what he says is for the most part irrelevant.
If you don't like it, don't read it, if you don't like the product, don't buy it. It is such a simple premise that I don't see why so many people have to be offensive with their comments.
What Lexicon have done is disappointing, it is also profiteering with the amount the player is.
However, it is not a bad player, it is extremely well built, and anyone who sees their way to buying one, with the amount of publicity around that will tell them where its design basis is, will have all ready got passed the low value for money side, and I'm no doubt will be happy with their purchase.
So please, show some respect to Chris Martens (who I don't know, have never met, and am unlikely to do so given I am several thousand miles away), and allow him to give his opinion on a product - which he appears to have done without problem - and don't do him the injustice of saying he has been bought, that he has lied or by being just plain offensive.
Well Said. Tim, I posted the first reply to Chris' blog and I completely agree with the thrust of your argument and that was the tone I tried to take with Chris, mith my main point being that he should have more forcefully focused on the poor value aspect of this story. Many of the posts here have devolved into child-like indignance that show no appreciation for how the real world works. I totally agree that Chris Martins in no way was trying to be dishonest. And I understand the fine line he has to walk in making his comments. As he has said, by refusing to ultimately write an official review for the product this speaks volumes and his blog in no way constitutes a positive take on Lexicon's product. So what's all the fuss about as you say?
There are those who complain about the inherent conflicts of interest ascribed to magazines based on an advertising-based model. To those people I say the following: vote with your wallet. If you no longer want that conflict of interest, be prepared to pay a significant premium for your subscriptions to get "unsullied" or "completely objective" reviews/opinions about high-end A/V products. TAS (and Stereophile et al) have a limited number of readers who probbaly would have to pay 10 times the cost of their current subscriptions (if not more) to get an advertising-free magazine. It is also hillarious to me that these same people who decry these conflicts and who point fingers at the integrity of these magazines and the biased nature fo their reviews are the same peolpe who refer to those reviews when justifying (and/or bragging about) purchase decisions they make about their gear. So which is it folks? Are TAS (and Stereophile and Soundstage.com etc...) marketing extensions of the companies they write about (and they got it right only those times when it pertains to the pieces of gear that you all bought) or are they completely objective/unbiased professionals who care nothing about alienating the companies who advertise in their publications? Well, the answer is neither black nor white, and as with all things grown up (as Tim has suggested) resides in that large nuanced shaded area in between. Yes there conflicts of interest and no these publications will not come out and overtly lambast some of the manufactured who happen to advertise in their publications. That would be dumb. But what they will do is provide the reader/subscriber with more nuanced signals: they will use more reserved and less than enthusiastic language in describing their enthusiasm about a specific product (either in terms of its performance or its perceived value) or when more forceful action is needed they may refuse to review a product outright (which most of us will not know about those decisions). So time to grow up for most and learn how to read between the lines and ultimately to rely on the ultimate and only arbiter that matters when making your purchasing decisions: your ear (and eyes).
Tim Dearing. Your response was the most comprehensive and eloquent response I have ever read. You said it all. Well done.
Chris said above- "On one hand, if the Oppo BDP-83 itself were sold through retail dealer channels with normal profit margins applied, I believe its MSRP would be anywhere from 2X to perhaps 3X the price Oppo currently charges for the product when selling it online on a manufacturer-direct basis."
Are you delusional? You know damn well that margains on dvd players are 15 to 30 percent. Lexicon is going down the tubes, and pulling the HT rags with them.
"Lexicon is going down the tubes"
Strange as it may seem, I doubt the 'Lexigate' saga will have any lasting effect on Lexicon's sales of the BD-30. Most of the intended customer-base for Lexicon players and power amplifiers are Lexicon processor buyers who want to have the same name-tag on everything.
There have been several 'shock, horror' exposés about Lexicon rebranding Pioneer DVD players and Bryston power amplifiers in the past, albeit none as well orchestrated as the current furore. They didn't seem to put a dent in the sales of those products, because they are almost attachment sales to the big processor.
As to the market they sell into, a significant number of Lexicon's product range go into large 19' racks in custom-made home theaters and custom-install plant rooms. Small as that market may be relative to the hulking great online reseller, it works with very different margins to you guys.
Alan Sircom
Editor, Hi-Fi Plus Magazine
London, England
editor [at] hifiplus [dot] com
BTW,
The sole purpose of pitching into this thread was to coin the term 'Lexigate'. I had considered 'Lexiclone' too, but I've always wanted to strike my own '_gate' scandal.
And now I have. I feel strangely complete.
Alan Sircom
Editor, Hi-Fi Plus Magazine
London, England
editor [at] hifiplus [dot] com
:-) nicely done Alan.
How jejune!
I prefer 'trite', personally. '__gate' is horribly hackneyed and trite, but industry-standard journalese. Now I've got it out of my system, I can move on.
Besides, we all need to lighten up on this, because the knitting circle is in danger of moving into 'self-righteous indignation' mode.
Alan Sircom
Editor, Hi-Fi Plus Magazine
London, England
editor [at] hifiplus [dot] com
Chuck Connolley,
No, Chuck, I'm not delusional; I'm well-informed. Here are some examples of retail pricing for high-end Blu-ray players typically sold through retail channels.
1) NAD M56 Blu-ray player: MSRP, $2000. (This is a Blu-ray/DVD/CD player, not a universal Blu-ray player.).
2) Anthem BLX 200 Blu-ray player: MSRP, $799 (This is a Blu-ray/DVD/CD player, not a universal Blu-ray player.).
3) Denon DBP-4010UDCI universal Blu-ray player: MSRP, $1999.
4) Marantz UD8004 universal Blu-ray player: MSRP, $2299.
My point is that both conventional Blu-ray players and universal/Blu-ray players intended for sale through high-end retail channels routinely sell for 2x-3x the price of the Oppo, or more.
Part of the price differential is driven by the fact that, with the retail sales model, there are (and have to be) two or more layers of profit margin built in to the product's retail price. First, the manufacturer has to make money when selling the product to the dealer and/or regional distributor, and second, the dealer has to make money when selling the product to you.
By comparison, the manufacturer-direct sales model (as used by Oppo) only requires one layer of profit margin; i.e., Oppo needs to make money selling the product directly to you.
Like many AVguide readers, I see a lot of merit in Oppo's manufacturer-direct approach, if only because it gives us access to an excellent player that--if sold through traditional high-end retail channels--might well be priced beyond our reach.
But that said, I know many, many people who are extremely uncomfortable with the idea of buying any high-performance product--sight unseen and sound unheard--through the internet. I can certainly respect those who prefer to work through local dealers, and who need, value, and are willing to pay for the added levels of service and support that retail dealers can provide.
Best,
Chris Martens
Chris Martens
Editor, Avguide.com/Playback/The Perfect Vision
Wow - this is incredible! I can't believe all this outrage over a marketing screw-up and a reviewer's interpretation of it. Chris' role (as I see it anyway) here is to inform, not to play judge and jury over a company's marketing practices as bad as they may be. And inform us, he has. He has revealed all the facts associated with this player for everyone to see and has not recommended this product to anyone (and supported Lexicon in this case). It is up to the reader to decide if they want to buy it.
Lexicon obviously mismanaged their messaging on this one (perhaps except at the very top) so they will have to pay for it with a loss in credibility from consumers and trade customers. That should be punishment enough. To go on and on about this and go after Chris is simply ridiculous. As consumers, we are lucky enough to have someone like Chris review products and have those reviews available at our fingertips so that we can make more informed buying decisions. To turn this into character assessment (or assassination) of the reviewer is silly. Chris, keep doing what your doing! I, for one, will keep reading and benefitting from your equipment reviews.
Cheers
Lorenzo
+1. Right on.
Going after Chris is wrong... But there is nothing wrong with pointing out issues with parts of his blog... There are many nasty comments made about Chris in the replies that are just plain wrong, but there are also some legitimate criticisms of the Blog.
IMO, Chris could have done 3 things in his blog and avoided the majority of the negative feedback:
1) Not attempt to discredit Audioholics, as that was seen by many to be merely negative (cheap shot at a rival publication) and unnecessary to the discussion (especially considering that Chris agreed with their findings)...
2) Give an opinion on whether he thought that the Improved Shell, dealer support and firmware updates justified the 7x price...
3) Clarify why he didn't regard the initial marketing as an attempt to mislead him/reviewers....
He did points 2 and 3 in his replies to criticisms (but they should have been in the initial blog).
Hello Mr. Martens,
I happened across this blog and admit some of the postings seem unnecessarily harsh. I have no problem with what you wrote and how you wrote it. I take it as is. I also will not assume any skullduggery on Lexicon's part, nor should I. To assume intent is, I think, too judgmental. The misinformation you and other journalists got is unfortunate for a high-end company like Lexicon, though.
I own an Oppo 83 and a Pioneer BDP-09FD (which is my primary player). I'm happy with both players. If I were in the market for one I'd likely not consider the Lexicon, but I do appreciate build quality, which the Lexicon obviously has. However, if the analog performance is superior, that might cause me to take a look. Build quality and superior analog sound is why I got the 09. But I would have considered $3500 too much for a BD player, ultimately.
Funny how no one had problems with Runco doing this with CRTs and processors for years, but now bash Lexi for doing the same thing. Hypocrites! where were you 10 years ago?
At least, one good thing to come out of all this cloning business is the confirmation by the industry that Oppo is the current big dog of Blu-ray players in the market regardless of price. Wat to go Oppo!!
Audiophilia has a long history of scamming it's members. why should anyone be so surprised.
http://www.theaudiocritic.com/back_issues/The_Audio_Critic_26_r.pdf
Does it take something as blatant as this Lexicon scam to open your eyes?
I can't take something called 'The 10 Biggest Lies in Audio' seriously when it comes from the only reviewer who wrote positive reviews of the Fourier One loudspeaker (the 'only fundamentally correct' loudspeaker, if memory serves), while neglecting to mention that he owned a controlling share of the Fourier loudspeaker company. I would count that as quite a big lie in its own right.
I can't take something called 'The 10 Biggest Lies in Audio' seriously when it fails to mention running off with your subscribers' money for seven years.
I can't take something called 'The 10 Biggest Lies in Audio' seriously when the guy comes back to writing (after his loudspeaker company fails), has a complete identity change (from arch subjectivist - dismissing measurement as 'mumbo-jumbo' - to poster-ancient for the measurement-led), conveniently forgets his former existence, and uses his new/old magazine as a vehicle to attack those who 'outed' his insider dealing, by calling them 'Black Hats'.
Lexicon has been caught scamming its customers. I'm sure there are others. But to set someone so unashamedly untrustworthy up as the arbiter of what's good and bad is simply wrong. I don't trust his motives. I haven't trusted his motives since he ran away with my money.
Mr. Martens, I hate to say it, but you have become a whore for the advertisers.
You really, really need to climb down off your high horse. Read the review again, this time in context of what constitutes a 'negative' review from these magazines. In that light, this is a review of a good product at a very bad price.
It identifies there are issues and paints them in what reads as a bad light round these parts. It's a pastel shade of bad light because I reckon unless the product actually killed one reviewer in the process of a review, the tone of reviews here would be generally complimentary. Look at the YG review elsewhere - Harley lays down a list of serious limitations in the conclusion (can't go loud, can't cope with the dynamics of the orchestra, only works in a small room, demands extremely expensive equipment) and yet comes up with a positive spin on this. I'd argue that as YG claims this is the best loudspeaker in the world, that claim is an outright lie, but I guess that's why I'm not a high-end loudspeaker reviewer.
The reviews lack balls, and the reviewers should have the courage of their convictions and say what they think instead of pussy-footing around and hiding their concerns in pale, ambiguous language. But that doesn't make them shills and whores.
I just found this review and happened to read the comments. Like some of you, I see the self-righteousness and personal attacks as off-putting to say the least.
I would add something that I don't see above, though, which is just as disturbing to me. Most of the people criticizing Lexicon and the writer of the review seem to miss a fundamental point about how good markets work and why they are desirable: Lexicon has added a choice to the market that wasn't there before. That is a good thing, unless you want to have markets managed by someone other than consumers and companies. I don't; I prefer a wide range of choices to a narrow range and I prefer consumers to have the vote.
Now, you might say, well we're voting here by shouting epithets at Lexicon and The Perfect Vision. Fine as far as voting goes, though the tone is unfortunate in my view.
So, here's my vote. I like the Lexicon BD-30. I'm glad it exists. I disagree that it is a scam. I object to the implication of your votes because they hurt me and don't help you.
You should note a few things:
. I'm actually the target consumer for this device (and I'd say essentially none of the posters calling it or the review a scam are).
. I don't consider it a scam because I want to buy complete design and installation services of a complete home theater system from a local high performance dealer -- and the way you pay for those services these days is through margin on products sold (as in some other hardware/service bundles in the market). I understand that I have to pay for what I get.
Those who don't like the Lexicon value proposition can buy the Oppo. Lexicon hasn't changed that; in fact to the degree that Oppo profits from this partnership, Lexicon has helped Oppo develop more great low cost players. By adding a choice to the market, Lexicon hasn't hurt anyone in the Oppo market.
OTOH, Lexicon has helped me by adding a choice I didn't have before. I can get the performance of the Oppo and have it integrated by my dealer. I like that. You can call me a fool, but in my mind this is just good division of labor: I can cover the cost of these services in less time doing my day job than I could by doing the design and install myself.
If you're asking for Lexicon to drop products like this, then you are in effect trying to prevent me from getting what I'd like. Since you get nothing out of it, as far as I can tell, I'd say you are a dark force in the market.
If you want reviews here to be written as if you're the only consumer on the planet and I don't exist, well, ditto. I don't see how the review of a product not aimed at you hurts you. But I do see how not writing the review to also cover my needs hurts me.
There are multiple kinds of people in the world. Acting like that isn't true is the source of all sorts of pain. Why amplify that problem?
Ahh, yes. The target customer. It doesn't excuse the subterfuge, though. And, wouldn't it be better for you to just pay for the installation services rather than having it hidden in outrageous margin? Clearly, money doesn't mean a lot to you, and that.s OK. I don't mind spending money when I know what I'm getting is worth it. And perhaps you aren't like me, and that's OK too. But your post is just the opposite: you are acting like the article was written just for you, and I have no right criticizing it. But, I didn't know I wasn't the target customer for a product by such a prestigious brand as Lexicon until the scam was exposed. But unlike you, I value my money and want to know I am putting it toward good value. But, as J. Bridges said in 1587......................
I don't see the purported subterfuge. Lexicon makes a product (in partnership with another company as the review points out). It has certain performance parameters. It costs $3500. I can buy it or not buy it. Lexicon leaves it to me to determine if there is something better for my needs and money (like essentially all companies). That's not subterfuge, that's marketing what I guess is actually a pretty good product through a well-defined distribution system per normal and customary practices.
No, I wouldn't be better off "just paying for the installation services rather than having it hidden in the outrageous margin". That's because the channel doesn't work that way. Custom installers are not set up to work on all products and then add services. Two reasons, as I understand it. First, they can't know how to design and integrate systems from all manufacturers well (hundreds of manufacturers and thousands of SKUs changing all the time is impossible to master). Second, custom installers have learned in my experience that they can't charge what it costs in services when the services sold are a la carte. Combining these two issues makes getting a separate services quote difficult from a reputable player. It is not worth my time to try to put people into a different business. If they're any good, they won't agree because they won't do it well. I've tried it both ways -- my a la carte guys are out of business, my full service guys can still come by and work with the documentation of my system that they created 7 years ago.
You suggest that money doesn't mean a lot to me, which is not at all what I said. What I said was that to me time and money are equivalent goods. Someone who cares about money will do the calculation to see if the time spent learning and doing a new thing pays off given the time taken away from paid activities. When you bill for your time you start thinking this way. To me, the Oppo is the irrational financial purchase unless I can get it with competent, proven and sustainable services because I don't have the time to learn the details or to make systems work when my lack of knowledge screws them up. Others with different experience levels and different billing rates would do the calculation the same way if they thought about it, but might get a different outcome.
I definitely did not say the article was written just for me, though I think it includes me. I encouraged people to express their views, but within a context: I think different and varied needs should be taken into account when writing these articles. Given those different needs, I am pointing out my objection to the view that the product is a scam, as if this were a public service, when in fact the product serves a target market reasonably well. If the Lexicon does the latter, then it is neither true nor helpful to me (or the target market) to layer on the histrionic epithets. In addition, it is not helpful to me (or the target market) to suggest that Chris be fired or that The Perfect Vision is somehow dishonest for pointing out that people like me exist and this product is aimed at them. Said differently, when you are potentially hurting someone else, the self-righteousness I see is unwarranted. Express yourself, but with a mind to the diversity of the market and some calibration of what harm has been done (or not) by the product or company.
Lear, while I see that depending on how easily it would be for you to buy and setup and Oppo yourself versus paying for the Lexicon and having someone do it for you might make sense depending on your pay rate per hour... There are still issues:
1) Not everyone who was/is a potential customer for the Lexicon is interested in custom installation - some of us would simply be looking for the best BluRay player available in our price range... So in that context the Lexicon would be a waste of our money... as both the Oppo SE and Nuforce SE are better players (and cost less)... So we would have spent the money on the Lexicon, expecting the best but merely getting a standard Oppo.
2) The issue for many is that it is only now that investigation has been done, that it is clear that there is no difference in performance between the Oppo and the Lexicon... So now you can make a decision of whether it is worth your money... but Lexicon certainly did not make it clear what you were getting for the additional money.... So persons would have taken Lexicon's word that there were changes and bought expecting better performance... There would be no issue if it was clear from the start that the Lex was just a re-badged Oppo... Then you could choose to buy or not... Many persons really want to see greater clarity from hifi companies, so we can make real decisions about what we are getting for the money...
Ajani,
Your 'some of us would simply be looking for the best BluRay player available in our price range' point doesn't tally with real-world 'reports from the frontline'. Lexicon players are typically sold to people who like the idea of a Lexicon processor and want an all-Lexicon system to match. Those after the best of the best tend to use top Denons to feed into their Anthem or Lexicon processors.
Alan Sircom
Editor, Hi-Fi Plus Magazine
London, England
editor [at] hifiplus [dot] com
What I can't fathom is why there is a belief that if someone wants to have an all-Lexicon system that it means that person will accept an inferior quality product... Many persons buy one brand systems (whether Rotel, Cambridge Audio, Naim, Musical Fidelity etc) and though they might be more interested in one brand than the absolute best component in each category, it doesn't mean they would stick to one brand if one component was considered to be sub-par to the rest of the gear...
I really find the idea that many persons would buy the Lexicon simply because it has Lexicon on the faceplate, and not care at all whether it is anywhere near the quality of their existing Lexicon Processor, to be exceedingly strange... I've owned one make systems before and still prefer to buy one make systems, but I would never buy a product that was clearly sub-par just to keep one brand.... But to each his own...
It's not a belief as much as feedback we get from market researchers and the people who sell the products. Yes, it would be better if Lexicon's disc-player lived up to the price differential, but it seems not to be that important to those buyers.
I'm not saying these customers lack discernment in their system choice, it's just that the focus of that discernment (in electronics at least) is directed toward the processor. When I worked on a home theater magazine in the UK called Home Entertainment (now long gone), I used to know one of the sales guys in one of the UK's top Lexicon stores, who also stocked Bryston. He knew that the Lexicon amp at the time was identical to a Bryston model in every way except front panel and price. He used to offer clients the option, explaining to them the difference and the savings, and he still sold a lot more Lexicon-Lexicon systems than he did Lexicon-Bryston.
He likened it to alloy wheels on an automobile. If your shiny new Cadillac Escalade had optional Caddy-badged alloys for $3,500 or you could get the same (just without the Caddy badge) for $500, there would still be people paying the extra.On the face of it, this seems crazy, but we all do it to some extent, whether it's a room full of Kitchen Aid products, buying a Nikon lens cleaning cloth for your Nikon lenses, or just buying your socks and undershorts from the same place.
Alan Sircom
Editor, Hi-Fi Plus Magazine
London, England
editor [at] hifiplus [dot] com
That is a good point. How the sales guy at the Lex store operated is how I feel Lexicon should operate. Just make it clear what you are getting for the money. Since it would appear that Lexicon's target customers would buy their products regardless of knowing that they are rebranded Brystons or Oppo products, then there really is no need for any kind of potential deception. Had it been clear from the outset that the lex was just an Oppo with a facelift, then there would be no controversy... no opportunity for Audioholics to do a "gotcha" investigation... no bad publicity for Lexicon and Harman....
What many persons (myself included) want is greater transparency in HiFi... Let me know what I'm getting for my money, before I buy the product... Then it's my choice if I want to spend extra for an improved faceplate, brandname and dealer support...
One point I've seen no mention of in any review of the Oppo -- when playing a music disc, you can't start the player from STOP on any track but track 1 -- which means that if you don't like track 1, in order to avoid an earful of it you have to press MUTE immediately, then select the track you want to hear, then unmute the player. That's an awkward substitute for something I consider basic functionality.
Being filthy rich as I am, I'd consider the Lexicon well worth the $3,000 premium over the Oppo just to get that basic ease-of-use. Can anyone tell me if you can start the Lexicon straight to any track other than track 1?
Wow. Amazing how many people are ripping this reviewer. I just wanted to add some more moral support. The fact is the reviewer is just giving us, well, the facts. This is what he was told, this is what the players looked and sounded like to me when compared and this is my review of the value proposition Lexicon is offering.
Now, personally, I think Lexicon is running a scam, but I do not expect a reviewer to come out and say so. His profession is not name-calling and labeling of manufacturers.
For example, as an attorney I form personal opinions about the players in the cases I handle but I do not go running into court saying so and so is a liar or a cheat or taking advantage of poor people.
The reviewer is just being professional. He gave us facts and then a professional opinion based on same. If you have a personal opinion to add, great, type away, but that is not a reviewer's job. In the context of a professional review, or more accurately blog post, this is a scathing rebuke of Lexicon's business choices.
Wow. People expect a *lot* more from blogs/reviews, so Chris' minimising the extent of Lexicon's behaviour here is unprofessional, misleading and just embarrassing for him and this site.
Hang in there Chris. I'd forgotten how picky and petty audiophiles can be. My only questions would be; Was OPPO funded in part during their design/development by Lexicon? Was there there any agreement after the fact of development by OPPO granting rights to Lexicon? Was this outcome (no credit given to OPPO) basically as agreed to by the two parties?
If this would have been done above board stating the OPPO design was the core or the basis for the Lexicon unit, it would have easier to gloss over. It is the denial/silence and the almost unidentifiable value added that raise the eyebrows here. What does OPPO say? They must have known at some point.
Wow, way to miss the point.
I do honestly believe any reviewer has to work with the information at hand, however, some times all they have is what is fed them by the manufacturer and we see examples of this every day with many different products, the drug companies being among the worst offenders.
Chris, I do disagree however, with your comment about some people being uncomfortable with the idea of purchasing high performance products over the internet. Given the 'far superior" sales/support departments of these companies, usually including complete 30 day money back guarantees and better warranties , I believe, this is a concern now, for most, whose "ship has sailed". If I buy a product today through a regular retailer and three months later I have a problem under warranty, I will have to contact the authorized repair service and/or manufacturer anyway. The retailer won't be involved, so where, really, is the advantage?
It is quite evident more and more specialty companies are emerging going strictly the internet "route", bypassing the retailer with their numerous product lines, personal agendas, and very often lack of knowledge. Companies like Oppo can focus on a specific product take time to develop it(along with a quality reputation)and of course sell it for an unprecedented price. Something unheard of, only a few years ago. They have kind of thrown a "monkey wrench" in to the "perceived" superiority of high-end high priced audio/video and it would seem that many of the publications and their reviewers are having quite a time dealing with it. Not that many years ago, who would have even considered comparing a $499 player to a $3500 player?
By the way, the Oppo BDP83 has to be, now, the most reviewed piece of equipment in consumer electronics history!
Trying to market it in a retailer,I believe, would do it a terrible injustice.
I know a man who is the target buyer for the Lexicon. He is much happier telling people he has a $250,000 sound and A/V system than he was when he used to brag about his $100,000 system. He has no musical taste. He made a few hundred million and wants people to know it. He is a cad, is uncouth, is a drunken fool, and is despised by his employees. None of this is necessary for being the perfect Lexicon consumer, but it helps. He has no education, buys all sorts of toys to show off, and has no idea that the Lexicon installers were laughing as they removed (to junk) the beautiful Classe equipment. They were more than happy to scrap this crap for him. They told everyone who worked on his new $5,000,000 home that he was a fool for changing from Classe to Lexicon. They laughed all the way to the bank. The rich guy is much happier saying that he now can say he has a new, "Quarter million Dollar system", than a commonplace $100,000 system. "Quarter Million Dollar System!" It does have a nice ring to it.
Of course, I can't ever let him hear my $10,000 system (at retail, not what I paid by piecing it together over 30 years), or I might lose my job with him. Oh, I forgot, he already fired me. I had no respect for him before, either.
Aren't we so smart and smug to try to get a bargain?
BMW 3 series is about 30% more expensive than a similarly equiped Honda and that is already considered luxury vs mass market. Why can't the same rule be applied to the world of Hifi? If an Oppo is sold for $500, then a $700 Lexicon is reasonable. Selling it for $3500 is plain highway robbery.
Wow, what a fire storm. Given the level of vitriol in some of the posts, Mr. Martens, you are to be commended for maintaining a civil tone.
As a member of the "Audio Cheapskate" division of our hobby (30-year-old a/d/s 2-way acoustic suspension speakers, which still sound quite good btw, and bottom of the line, previous generation stereo integrated amp and 2-channel only CD(HDCD)/SACD/DVD-A/DVD-V player from Arcam), I suppose something like the Oppo player will be in consideration when I eventually go to blue-ray (probably at the time 1.536 MHz, 64-bit downloads and/or encoded holocrystals come to market). Lexicon has priced itself out of the market niche that I inhabit. While good sound has long been important to me, I would rather spend my money on the little silver discs and occasional live performances (plugs for Zoo Bar in Lincoln, NE and Blues Masters at the Cross Roads festival in Salina, KS: great musical bang-for-the-buck here on the lone prairie: "Hey! Hey! The blues is alright!").
Soap box time: Given the current economic climate, I suppose that it is inevitable that almost all of the electronics that are affordable by mere mortals, such the Oppo, are manufactured in China. Even the $2500 baby Krell integrated amp is made over there. I am pleasantly surprised that my Arcam kit (see Ken Kessler) is still made in Jolly Old England, at least at the moment. Yes, I am aware that I am treading perilously close to the "import bashing" threshold and that a large number of Americans owe there income to the import industry. However, the balance of trade arrow still points decidedly to Asia (Anthony Bourdain of the Travel Channel has identified Shanghai as the future capital of the world). I applaud the continued efforts of domestic manufacturers such as Audio Research, Ayre, Boulder, Bryston (yes, I know, Canada), Boulder, Classe, Conrad-Johnson, Krell (mostly), MacIntosh, Pass, Sim Audio (Canada, again) et al. I would dearly love to get my hands on some of their gear, but there's that market niche thing again. Eventually energy costs will cause shipping costs to cancel out labor cost advantages to some extent. At that time, we mere mortals will be scouring the used equipment market for gear in "the old that is strong does not whither" category. In the mean time, support your local hi-fi dealer(s) as best you can. End of soap box. Thank you for your indulgence.
ps to Chris Martens: before I bought the afore mentioned previous generation DV135 disc spinner at a nice close-out price in accordance with "Audio Cheapskate" protocols, I had (still have actually, packed away in its box) the Sony DVP-NS500V CD/SACD/DVD-V player that you recommended in your TAS debut. Good advice. The Arcam is definitely the superior machine with red book CDs and especially HDCD encoded discs, but the Sony is still in the ballpark for SACD playback. The DV135 is essentially a 2-channel only version of the multi-channel DV137 that Robert Harley had reviewed for TAS and converts DSD to 176.4 kHz, 24-bit PCM before sending it to the Wolfson dac.
I have found this whole Lexicon/Oppo saga very entertaining, makes for great late night reading. What really amazes me the most is the emotional attachment this issue has for so many people, and reaction to critics that don't whole heartedly attack and condemn Lexicon for their blatant price gouging. After reading dozens of articles and responses to this issue, I have come to the following conclusions:
People are outraged because they have been mislead. That in itself happens every day to all of us (Marketing). What has kept the flame going on this Lexicon/Oppo incident is the fact that a perceived high end product, by a high end company is not what it was supposed to be. Why does that bother people so much? Well... because we are consumers. Some of us can afford what we want and some of us cannot. What drives any market is a perceived need and desire. Living in the USA I know many people who want things the cannot afford. Some because of the status, others because of the perceived notion that paying more means it's better. In a consumer driven market that way of thinking can work often enough. If enough people buy a product and find it to be worth the money, they will recommend the brand to others. Reputation.
I suspect many of the people that did their research on the Lexicon player and found out it was an Oppo, are the ones that are posting very emotional and sometimes irrational comments. They are outraged because they rely on and trust the comments of respected audio/video outlets to provide them with unbiased reviews.. What brought them to this site at all was the love of all things audio and visual.
The story that started this whole thing was a side by side review of the Lexicon and Oppo by a respected critic. He stated the Lexicon was visibly and audibly better than the Oppo. Another site picked up on this, compared the units, found them to be the same and called out the reviewer. Another couple of months went by without the reviewer offering a rebuttal. In the end his stood by his review and offered some fairly week reasons for doing so. But again the review was based on his perceptions. As we all know what sounds good to me may not sound good to you.
The part that everyone ran with was the fact that no one who reviewed the product would admit they were wrong. The public wants someone to blame for the deception, and anyone who remotely tries to side with Lexicon was skewered. Not many of us will say "I may have been wrong, and I am sorry".
So to get back to the reason I posted here. Many of us want something we can't afford. We aspire to have the finer things in life. When we find out that something of high caliber was not worth trying to obtain, as a result we feel mislead and disappointed. This leads to outrage and anyone who disagrees is the enemy and we get defensive.
An example. My 20 year old son wants a Rolex. Why? because he thinks it gives him status, it creates the illusion he is successful. What if everyone who felt the same way found out Rolex was made by Seiko? There would be riots in the streets.
I think this is what happened with the Lexicon/Oppo thing. Oppigate. We found out the Rolex of brands was selling a Seiko and we feel mislead.
The funny thing is some people will buy the Oppo using their credit card and pay interest on the balance until they can pay it off. In the end they might be paying for the Lexicon after all. It is all perception.
What troubles me more is who can we trust? Not reviewers, not manufactures. THX certified the Lexicon and it did not even meet their standards?