A $995 Wonder Amp?
Here’s a question: What stereo amp generates 130Wpc into 8 ohms, is stable down to 2 ohms, has a bandwidth that extends to 400kHz, is capable of 40 amp swings, has a damping factor greater than 500 and distortion less than 0.04%, runs in Class A and AB, uses virtually the same circuit as the Symphonic Line RG11 stereo amp from Germany, and was recommended to me by none other than Magico’s Alon Wolf, who uses it (among other amps) in his factory to test speakers, including my current darlings—the M5s?
Wolf has access to every amp on earth—and has heard most of the top contenders (heard more of them than I have). And while this particular number isn’t among the elite (that would be Soulution, Spectral, and Boulder, according to W.), he considers it “good enough,” especially for the money, to float his boat(s). Oh, yeah, I forgot to mention the money. The amp costs $800 ($995 in the ugraded version I received).
How can this be, you may be asking yourself (as I certainly asked myself). A W.-approved amp that costs about the same dough as a single Mundorf capacitor in a single M5? Well, part of the answer is that the amp in question—named the “Khartago Stereo,” made by a company called Odyssey located in picturesque Indianapolis, IN, and literally tweaked to order by Odyssey’s Klaus Bunge—is only sold direct. (If you’re interested, go to http://www.odysseyaudio.com/index.html and take a look around.) Eliminating the distributor and, alas, the retailer apparently does wonders for the bottom line—and your pocket book. (The Symphonic Line RG11 amp, which is, as noted, more or less identical to the Khartago Stereo, costs more than five times as much as the Odyssey version.)
How does it sound? Well…I’m still collating, but I can already tell ya that it doesn’t sound remotely like any $800 amp I’ve ever heard, and the $2.2k Stratos monoblocks, which I also have on hand, don’t sound remotely like any $2k amp I’ve ever heard, either. In this price range, you have every right to expect decent sound, but you don’t expect much refinement. There will be noise; there will be grain; there will be soundstage constriction, timbral anomalies, dynamic and SPL limits, less detail, less everything.
Not so with the Odyssey amps. Tremendous soundstage width, a warm natural tonal palette with (believe it or not) a touch of ARC-like bloom, very good dynamics top-to-bottom, and—wonder of wonder—no transistor grain, no transistor darkness, no edge or etching of detail. Though I wouldn’t say the Khartago or the Strati are the equals (or close to the equals) of the Soulution 700s or 710 in resolution, transparency, neutrality, dynamic range, or, frankly, any other parameter you’d care to examine, they are, indeed, “good enough” to drive even a delicacy like the M5 with surprisingly lifelike realism.
Now I can’t imagine many folks shopping for M5s will be leaning toward an $800 amplifier. But for the rest of us, this may be one of those once-in-a-decade wonders—a dirt-cheap amp that doesn’t come with the compromises that “budget” amps always seem to have.
I’m not sure of this, yet—after all, I just got ’em a week ago and haven't even begun to take detailed listening notes. But I am sure that these Odyssey amps aren't run-of-the-mill. They are different, and they are special. And lest you’re wondering how reliable a sold-direct $800 amp may turn out to be, understand that Bunge has been building these things for better than a decade, has sold thousands of them (direct), and can more or less “tune” them to your speakers and your electricity. They are warranted for twenty years (twenty years!) and their warranty is transferable. Moreover, Bunge will check up any Odyssey amp (bias, offset, etc.) free of charge for registered customers.
Though new to me, the Khartago Stereo and Stratos monoblocks aren’t new products. They’ve been around a long while, since the late 90s, although the current versions are superior (according to Bunge) to the ones that were widely praised back in the day. I’ll be reviewing them in the September TAS (Issue 195), so you may want to wait to read my considered thoughts, when I’ve gotten over the shell shock of hearing an $800 stereo amp and a $2k monoblock amp make the Magico M5s sound far better than I expected any piece of electronics at this price point could make a speaker of this sophistication sound.
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Comments
Sounds great.
Have them send me one and I'd be happy to test and review it for Amazon.com! ;']
Mr Valin:
If you want to see some wonder amps designed and sold here in the US please take a look and listen at Emotiva.
$800 gets you 250 W x2 with outstanding build quality. Take a look. They are the wave of the future.
I agree 100%, as does a loyal following of Klaus Bunge. Odyssey Audio offers unbelievable bang for the buck. And this incredible musicality comes with a 20-year warranty and is made in the USA (the boards come from Germany).
Have you heard them AB'd against Emotiva products?
I read this expecting hear about something new, and better yet. Something that was new to me. But I already know what your saying. A pair of Mono SE's will flat smoke anything from Krell, PS Audio, Conrad Johnson (solid state), Quick Silver (anything), and I suspect the "E" whatever it is. The Mono SE's are not the latest and greatest Mono's either! The "glass Cieling" monos will smoke the regular Mono SE's. The list just keeps going on and on.
been there and done that
gary
Not sure what you're talking about, Gary.
Why even bother to reply to idiots like him? Cuz you just wasted 4.6 seconds of your life that you can never get back!
Uh...you gotta point.
What Gary is referring to are the higher end models in the Odyssey line. Klaus can custom upgrade his amps from their basic design. I believe what you have is the basic starting amplifier. The next step is the Stratos and there are many upgrades that can be had in that line. The posting by Gary refers to the top of the line upgrades offered by Klaus known among his customers as "The Glass Ceiling upgrade".
cheers
Sri
Hi Johnathon,
Can you give me greater details on your Emotiva experiences and your opinion in regards to purchasing them?
Thx
John
jtmj
I look forward to reading the full review. I am curious as to how these Odssey amps compare to the Vincent sp-331 and the spt-800 monoblocks.
Ah!
The upgrade path was a major attraction for me. Bought the Stratos mono's used and upgraded as funds allowed. Never felt that the upgrades were being used as a profit center, rather simple parts and labor pass through. So bottom line is you can get in at a relatively low cost and go up from there without losing a bunch of money (try that with other firms). Also should point out that Klaus offers a generous trade-in program if you want to jump from the Stratos series up to his new Kismet line. All-in-all I'm a happy audiophile. And my upgrade itch is satisfied at a reasonable cost, especially when I think about what I'd have to spend to beat 'em. I really hope you have the opportunity to not only listen to the Khartago but also a set of upgraded Stratos Mono's, because I think you'll 1) appreciate the Khartago more and 2) appreciate the performance available within the line. Would really love to hear your opinion of the Stratos Mono SE's because I own them and they're constantly referred to a "giant killers" : ) Thanks!
Very informative .Thanks !
I've listened to these odyssey amps. They are good for the money but not really "wonders".
Can the "transistor" grain and other artifacts mentioned be idenfiied on a distortion or noise spectrum? Do we know what's causing it? How do engineers design it out in a cost efficient manner?
Odyssey makes a decent sounding amp for the money but there customer support is strange and elusive at times. Also, the amps I have received from Odyssey have been the sum of a bunch of used parts. Other small audio companies like Decware, Wyred4Sound, Higher-End Emotiva easily best Odyssey.
Let me clarify my statements from my first post, Klaus and I had an understanding that he would use b-stock cases and other minor parts to build my amps. They sounded great, but I thought I was a bit short changed aesthetically for the money I paid. When you can get a hold of him, Klaus is incredibly concerned about making things right! He will go out of his way to get it done. That is a gurantee any Odyssey customer can count on.
The Kartago amps are small examples of what Odyssey can do. Frankly, they can't compete with the Emotiva XPA-2s. That's just a matter of parts and production costs in China vs. the USA. That being said, Emotiva isn't producing an amp that can compete with the Stratos Extreme Monos! The Emotiva is great entry level gear and Klaus competes in that market with the Khartagos. Unfortunatley for Emotiva, they can't handle the smooth sound and warm dynamics of the Odyssey Stratos Extremes. This is one man's opinion, but with the right geat Odyssey can sound sweet. My speakers sound horrible with Odyssey gear, but I have been blown away with their performnce listening to Tyler Acoustics or Totem.
As I meant before, rock on Odyssey.
I'm not sure that my question is appropriate for this specific blog, but it won't hurt to ask. I've never understood what amplifiers are supposed to do. I currently own a Pioneer Elite SC-07 AVR, and I recently purchased a pair of the Definitive Technology Mythos STS speakers, along with the Mythos nine, and the Gem surrounds. [The Gem surrounds don't seem very special, but the STSs and the nine are incredible. Couple it all with my 60" Kuro, and opera never sounded or looked this good]. Be that as it may, I'm inclined to doubt that an amplifier would help my system, but I'm still curious. PS. I have been a fan of JV for many years; I still remember your long and interesting review of "Mulholland Drive" many years ago in "The Perfect Vision" (those reviews--by all your staff--were my favorite part of the magazine).
My question is: at this price, how consistent are they, unit to unit? Are they using high-quality passive components, matching transistors, and so on? Point being, Jonathan, if YOU have a good experience with 'em, how well assured can I feel that my experience will be at least similar? At this price point, I have to wonder.
I agree with repdetect, as an owner of Emotiva amps - for 799 plus 25 shipping an Emotiva XPA-2 will smoke this amp, and you don't have to worry about "glass ceiling" upgrades. They over engineer it from the getgo!
I haven't heard this particular amp, but I don't have to - the Emo's are that good :-)
Not gonna bite. Other than to say that I would never be so bold as to say "mine will smoke yours" without having at least heard them both side-by-side. Again, I'm happy with them and believe I'd need to spend a lot more to beat them. Also, there are the soft factors: Klaus / Odyssey customer service, warranty, custom colors, made in the USA and upgrade options. To each his own.
I don't care too much for Odyssey, but how can you comment on what you've never heard? You essentially allow Emotiva to be capable of greatness and assume everything else cannot. How do you know Klaus Bunge doesn't over-engineer his gear? Perhaps Klaus has the engineering just right? Sorry for the rant, but I can't stand fanboys who have a singular perspective.
Congrats Klaus on the Review. You still piss me off.
I own one of their preamps, and it is amazingly good, and at an excellent pricepoint. I also sent it in for service, which turned out to be unnecessary (it was a problem with my amps), and their service was excellent. I have read extensive Odyssey reviews and commentaries on Audiogon as well, and they're extremely well reviewed.
Would you be so kind as to go into more definition on the Emot iva products. Also, have you heard the XPA-5 and if so how do you believe they stack up against the XPA-2? I am on the verge of buying Emotiva.
Thx
John
jtmj
"And lest you’re wondering how reliable a sold-direct $800 amp may turn out to be, understand that Bunge has been building these things for better than a decade"
I have a pair of Stratos Monos and a Stratos 3 channel running my 5.1 audio/video system. These amps are unbelieveable for the money. Klaus recommends you leave the amps powered up at all times for the best sound. My Odyssey's, purchased new in October of 2000, have been on continousely since that time, save for the occasional power outage. They never get excessively hot and have performed beautifully for going on 9 years. How's that for reliability! All the accolades you bestowed on them are true, and I think you will find after they break in a little the sound improves even further. They ARE giant killers in my opinion, and because of the "direct from the manufacturer" sales approach somewhat of a secret in the community. I know they got a lot of press in the late '90's/early 2000's, but after that have quietly stayed under the radar. After your TAS review that may change again.
I have a Stratos stereo that was just upgraded with the new circuit boards and most of the Extreme (it does come in stereo as well as monoblock) parts. I like the Stratos before but felt I maybe wasn't getting the full benefit of my ARC LS26 and B&W 703s. I was right! I've only had the upgrade for a couple of weeks and things are still setlling in, but the detail and soundstaging are noticeably better.
I'll be very interested to hear Jonathan's review. I don't have lots of experience with different amp, so it would be good to know how this stacks up and it's not reviewed that often.
I bought mine originally from a friend who had the Stratos and a C-J tube amp to sell. The C-J had its charms but there was no question at all that the Stratos outperformed it in the bass, where you will hear absolutely lifelike bass whether electric, acoustic, mellow or finger popping.. Being a musician who listens to lots of small group jazz, that pushed me toward the Stratos. I'm interested to hear how Jonathan rates holographic qualities of the amp, as well as the treble reproduction.
Much as it would be nice to have a Musical Fidelity 500Wpc monster or some such, the Stratos allowed me to put more into sources and preamps and CDs and albums.
Sounds like marketing to me. No prices on the site. No vendors or affiliates. Extra cost for silliness like putting colors on the frames? And while "$800!!!" might be exciting, it's still real money. I think the vendor cannot be criticized, but the writer of this review is a fool to be behave in this way.
How do these amps compare to the McCormack DNA series? They were a breaktrhrough 7 or so years ago.
And are all still highly regarded in similar price ranges with a slightly higher starting point @ $1500 or so for a new DNA-125.
I've swapped both the XPA-2 and Mono Extreme's within the same 2 channel system and while the Emo's are great the ME's stayed. I moved the Emo to HT. Both are great Amps from strong Companies...
John,
If you're addressing this note to me, I have had NO experience with the Emotiva amplifiers, although I have heard a McCormack DNA amp, NAD amps, several different Parasound amps, several affordable Class D switching amps, and a few affordable tube amps in my own systems (and a larger number of inexpensive amps from Rotel, NAD, and others in friends' systems). Most of the time, of course, I listen to and review expensive tube and solid-state electronics, because that is my "beat" on the magazine.
Some guy in one of the posts above called me a "fool" for "behaving in this way," by which, I guess he means getting excited about what appears to be a couple of superior products at--for me--astonishingly low price points. I concede that I have limited experience with inexpensive amplifiers. OTOH, I have considerable experience with the best of the most expensive gear, and what surprised me was how much of a taste the Odysseys gave me of that sound--and how different they sounded from the other tube and solid-state amps priced near (or a little bit higher) than they are that I've heard in my home, at shows, and in other people's systems .
Let me also note that, in spite of what several of you have said, I haven't reviewed anything yet. A review will come, of course, in time, but this blog was just that--a blog, detailing how I heard about these amps, what their manufacturer claims about their performance, and my own preliminary response to hearing them with what is, indubitably, one of the world's greatest loudspeakers (a combo I did not expect would be as successful as it turned out to be).
Judging from the number of replies to this thread, there are a lot of you out there who are far more familiar with the Odyssey and its competitors than I am. For the most part I've found your posts interesting and informative. So keep at it.
Jon
Yes, I am a loyal Emo cusomter, I'm sorry if my comments piss you off. I simply believe that they are the absolute BEST value when it comes to quality processors and amplifiers. I do believe that the XPA-2 is a better value, and will smoke the odyssey. I don't have a singular view - I'm not saying that Emotiva is the greatest thing since sliced bread (pretty close though) However I dare you to find a better amp anywhere for under $1,000 than any of Emotiva's offerings because I don't believe you can. That was my point. For 800 bucks I wouldn't even blink do buy the XPA-2 over the Odyssey. I don't know if Klaus overengineer's his, but looking at the guts of the XPA's vs his amps, well the Emos look more impressive. If you think I'm a fan boy wait until I get on my Macintosh rants , I'm not a PC :-)
busen19 ; you must some kind of MORON to THE 10TH DEG. to make statements like the ones you made.
I distrust Odyssey in general since I noticed a curious phenomena at audioreview.com.
In the past, negative reviews of odyssey amps at audioreview.com "suspiciously" disappeared in several occasions, leaving only the "5-stars" ones and therefore a practically perfect average rating. Since other people noticed this too and started to complain about it, some of the negative reviews have been "allowed" to be posted without being removed afterwards to calm down suspicions.
Like I said, this makes me distrust Odyssey a big deal.
Hmm, the Emotiva stuff looks well made and I'm sure it sounds good. It certainly is flashy-looking. Odyssey's web pages, and their products, are pretty drab by comparison. But I have to agree with those who have chimed in about the sound of the Stratos and the Khartago. I owned a Stratos with the 120k cap upgrade and worked out a deal with Klaus to swap it (and a reasonable amount of cash) for a radically upgraded Khartago, which is a better fit in my rack. Just FYI, he is a phone guy who will want to talk to you about the rest of your system, your room, etc., so he can tailor your order to your needs. He never gave me a hard sell on anything, just choices and helpful information (including how to measure my AC voltage!). I prefer this to a "click to add to shopping basket" type experience, myself. Anyway, both amps sound absolutely spectacular to my ears. I've never seen an amp "smoke" another one but I prefer the sound of my Khartago (and the Stratos before it) to solid state amps I've used by Rotel, NAD, B&K, ATI, Musical Concepts, Audio Refinement, Acurus, Aragon, and Creek, as well as a couple of upgraded Moscode 300s and various and sundry integrateds, etc. Tube amps are another matter, but if you're looking for a solid state amp that runs cool, plumbs the depths of the sub-40hz region, and offers tremendous speed and power coupled with sweetness and finesse I heartily recommend the Odyssey amps. Oh yes, and the soundstage is killer. Everything's a matter of taste I suppose, but please don't run down Klaus or his products without hearing them. No conspiracy in my experience, just damn well made and fine sounding equipment at a very, very competitive price :) Thanks for your review, Jonathan; I get this AVGuide thing sent automatically and seldom read it, but I was curious to see what the "$800 wonder amp" was. Guess what? It's my amp! Cool beans.
I got introduced to Odyssey products through the AudioCricle website (Odyssey Forum) . I was looking out for a decent amplifier. I came to know that you could call Klaus very late in the evening and he would answer the phone. I thought that was joke and I decided to give it a try. To my surprise Klaus picked up the phone. I told him about my current setup and was looking for a decent amplifier. I have read a lot about the Khartago amps and I enquired about them. Klaus asked me about the speakers that I use and he recommended Khartago monos. I was skeptical initially and I decided to give it a try. To my surprise, those Khartago mono's exceeded my expectation right off the start. Klaus did mentioned to keep the amps on to get its full potential. After couple of days, the amps really opened up. After couple of months, I decided to upgrade to Stratos Mono Extremes and that was the best decision I made. Since then, I have upgraded to "The Glass Ceiling Upgrade" . I have also accquired Tempest Extreme, Symphonic Line Vibrato CD player. Its an unbelievable combination. Klaus is a very good person to work with and he goes the extra mile to make sure that you are happy with the Odyssey products. His customer service is excellent. Oh BTW, I'm on a waiting list for Kismet Tube pre-amp. Congratulations Klaus !!! A very happy Odyssey customer..
Just wanted to say 'hello', Jonathan. Gary D. and I used to work at Stereo Lab in Cinci, At one time...back in the day...we came over to check out your DCM Time Windows. Gary and I frequently clue each other in to your reviews.
Oh, for goodness sake! How the hell are you guys? Wasn't one of you was into karate and guitar--was it Gary? Or am I confusing things? (It has been twenty-five years or more.) I think my brother-in-law still has those DCM Time Windows!
You got it right, Jonathan. I just spoke to Gary a moment ago while he was waiting for his plane to taxi out of the Atlanta airport. He wanted me to say 'hello' to you and your wife Cathy for him. He was indeed the fellow into karate and classical guitar. He then went on to become an attorney. He's practicing now in Houston (where he and his wife and two kids live) and in Virginia. I'm sure he'd be thrilled to hear from you. If you'd like to contact him by email, I'd be glad to send his address to you. Do you have my email address...the one we enter just before our posts?
JV:
Can't wait for your review. The Odyssey webpage offers a wealth of detail on their products for the curious. And the prices can't be beat. If you and A. Wolf consider these near-great amps, I guess I'll have to check them out.
Amandela
Amandela77
Which pre-amp does Magico pair with the Odyssey amp? Enjoyed the article.
So what do you think so far?
Jonathan, thanks for the reminder of these seldom publicized amps even though I gave myself a swift kick. The first and only time I heard these amps was at a large stereo show. I wandered into an Odyssey Audio demo room out of curiosity having never heard of the company. But after listening to the Khartago and huge Stratos with their eyebrow raising price/performance ratios, I thought, oh yeah, they are something special - aimed at audiophiles with champagne tastes and beer pocket books. I wish I had followed my instincts and ears and learned more about Odyssey, but I just wrote them off. Obviously, this is my loss based on your initial positive comments. I look forward to your in-depth review. Now excuse me while I give myself a few more kicks…..
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This is a very interesting thread. I don’t normally participate in these discussions. While I am loathe to believe the "definitive" claims of audio supremacy by anyone, I can accept that some gear sounds better to some people. That said, I have been quite impressed by Odyssey Audio gear. In fact, I bought Odyssey Audio gear based on its sound alone and have never regretted it.
My engagement with Odyssey started at the CES show in S.F. in 2003(?). A local shop, for which I was doing some computer work, had offered me a free ticket to the show. I had never attended an audio/video show of any kind, so I thought, “Why not?” While I had no real discretionary cash and no intent to buy anything, I thought the show might offer a great learning experience.
On the assigned day, I walked into the St. Francis Hotel and embarked on a long day of listening to audio equipment. I wandered from room to room, experiencing the sound produced by all sorts of gear. A friend of mine used to say, when discussing relationships, “There’s a lid for every pot.” Apparently, that axiom holds true for consumer electronics. The gear in some rooms sounded great. Others rooms sounded just awful. I realized, that day, that beauty really is in the ear of the listener.
Most of the gear I liked was priced well beyond my means. While I would love to own a pair of $40,000 speakers, I don’t think that’s going to happen anytime soon. So, I resigned myself to listening and learning.
It must have been around 7:00 PM, as most of the rooms had closed down for the day. The cacophonous din that had filled the halls had finally abated. I thought I had reached an insurmountable level of listening fatigue, having been assaulted by so much sound all day. The rooms seemed to blur together into one large mass of incoherent noise. All I wanted was to go home to peace and quiet.
While headed for the elevators to reach the parking garage, I passed by a small room in which a small group had gathered for a listening session. I paused in the doorway. The music was playing at a very listenable level. I had never heard that particular piece of music before, but I was impressed how “warm” and realistic it sounded. (I later learned it was Stevie Ray Vaughn’s “Tin Pan Alley” – a great demo track for open, slow blues, BTW).
I was unwillingly sucked into the room, wanting to listen to this rich, liquid soundscape. I was completely unfamiliar with the gear or the manufacturer. However, I simply could not argue with my ears. The sound was intoxicating and I wanted to listen.
The equipment’s appearance was not particularly impressive. In fact, it looked rather utilitarian and functional. There were no glitzy collateral or shiny brochures; just amazing sound. Having listened to ridiculously expensive audio gear all day, I was prepared to add the equipment before me to that long list of the unaffordable and unattainable. However, when I looked at the plain-paper price sheet to learn who the manufacturer was (Odyssey Audio?) and how far out of reach this particular equipment was, I was shocked. This gear (and its amazing sound) was actually affordable.
I had never heard of Odyssey. I had never encountered an Odyssey owner, forum or review. It just sounded good to me. After about 30 minutes of quiet listening and discussion, I decided that I wanted this sound for my own.
I bought an Odyssey Stratos stereo amplifier that day, based on sound alone. I had to wait about a month for the amplifier to arrive at my door. I set up my speakers (JBL, at the time. I was just starting out on my audio addiction and had not noticed the JBL’s shortcomings yet.) I placed the Stratos on the floor next to my Anthem Audio MCA-50, and undertook an A/B comparison.
Many in this forum have used the phrase “blows the doors off” when discussing their favorite flavor of gear. I don’t like that phrase very much. It’s dismissive and disrespectful. However, in this case, that phrase applies. The Stratos decimated the MCA-50.
The music took on a whole new quality. The top-end opened up. Suddenly, I could “hear the air”. The mid-range definition bloomed (something JBL’s don’t do particularly well, either). The low-end manifested a power that had, heretofore, been missing. The music grew for me that day. I had not realized something was missing in my system. That gap was made very evident that day.
While there is much more I could say, I will simply close by noting that the quest for satisfying sound never ends. For some, that quest is about having the biggest, baddest, latest, greatest gear and proving how much bigger yours is than the other person’s. For others, audiophilia is about capturing and recreating the emotional transcendence that music offers. I believe I fall in the latter category.
The bottom line is simply this: I bought Odyssey Audio gear based on sound alone. Having heard some of the best gear money can buy, I believe Odyssey Audio represents one of the best values in the audio industry. Many people agree with me. Give it a listen. I believe you will, too.
would be great ( and a lot of fun) to see an direct selling speaker company doing 2000 dollar speakers which can almost (not totally but almost) do all things the Magico V3 does.
if 800 dollar amp is good enough for Mr Wolf, a 2000 dollar pair of speakers may be good enough for ( fill in top amp designer here)
;-)
I just read JVs review of the Odyssey Khartago. It seems like it is an impressive amplifer. The only issue I have is that it is described in the article as being $799; however the unit that JV reviewed has had substantial upgrades and sells for $995. JV reviewed the $995 amplifier, not the $799 amplifier. In the product of the year awards, the price is listed as $799 and there is a description "postively the best budget amp that JV has heard". The editors and JV should not be referring to the reviewed amp as costing $800 when it costs $1000. This is misleading and inaccurate. My understanding of journalism is that it strove to be truthful and accurate, not misleading and inaccurate.
Stephen,
You are correct about the price difference and the inaccuracy. The version that I got was "ugraded," but I didn't know it when I originally posted. However, it is still the best budget amp I've heard. I'll change the title to reflect this,
Jon
Thanks, Jon. I think you readers will be better served by stating prices accurately. There have been a no. of instances where I have seen this in the pages of TAS, just as an FYI. The Vincent SP331 amplifier was (and still is) being referred to a a sub-$1000 dollar amplifier in the current as well as previous POY awards; it is not under $1k, it is now $1200. The price is now correct but the text is still not correct; also the Epos M16i in the previous POY was referred to as being $1595 when it was $1995. There seems to be a pattern of price inaccuracies in TAS that is continuing; I wrote to RH about this at the last POY issue and pointed it out to him, but there are still inaccuracies. Some prices are now correct, but the text for the SP331 is still wrong and in case of the Khartago, the price stated in TAS 195 for the Khartago should not be stating the price as $799 when the price of the reviewed amp is $995. You and I both know that replacing the transformer, resistors, and caps, etc. with higher specification and quality materials will make an amp sound much better than an amp built with the "stock" bill of materials; the $995 amplifier is a different amplifier than the $799 one.
Anyway, thanks for the review. I'm thinking about ordering one of these to try it out.
Regards,
Stephen.
Jonathan,
Thank you for your review of this amp. I have read that the odyssey amps need to be left powered on at all times to sound there best. Did you find this to be true?
Yes, but I find that to be true of solid-state amps in general (and, really, of tube amps but the heat and $$$ makes that impossible).
Jonathan,
Excellent post and article in TAS given the times. Do you know what other equipment (pre-amp & CD player) Alon W. uses w/ the Ks?
Thanks!
Mark,
I do not.
Jon
Jonathan,
Loved the review, but have an observation / request. At first I liked how the amp was described as "good enough" implying it gives much of what the $40k amp did. Feels good. But then the "good enough" began to feel like a slightly (though unintended) negative spin.
Rather, it would have been great if you could give your impressions of the amp in comparison to others in the say $1k-10k range. Would like to hear you say that the Khartago easily beats (insert name here)...and is the pick for anything at the price point. How do I know that a $1k amp from Rotel, NAD, Emotiva, etc aren't also "good enough"? How do I know that a $10k amp from McIntosh, Krell, Bryston, Classe etc aren't also "good enough", but maybe not as close as the Khartago? It would have been great if you would have named names and then elevate the Khartago further by continuing your comparison to the Soulution, just for fun.
Comparing the Khartago to the Soulution was fun and certainly puts the amp in a very positive light, but does not really help a reader make a decision.
Also, I think I remember also seeing the Soulution amps listed as "recommended components". How is this possible if they could nearly be replaced so easily by a $1k amp?
Respectfully,
Bob
Jonathan,
Loved the review. Liked how the Khartago compared so favorable against the Soulution. Feels good. However after reading again, I started to feel the “good enough” statement and comparison take a slightly (though unintended) negative spin. OK, the Khartago is great, but how do I not know that other $1k amps aren’t also “good enough”. I would rather have seen you say that the Khartago easily beats (insert name here) and is the pick for anything at the price point. By making the comparison you did, a reader doesn’t know that a $1k amp from Rotel, NAD, Emotiva, etc aren’t also “good enough”. For that matter, a reader doesn’t know if a $10k amp from McIntosh, Classe, Bryston, Krell fall short of the Khartago performance. Name names please. Last, I seem to remember seeing the $$$ Soulution in the Recommended Components list. How is this possible if a $1k amp nearly reaches the same level of performance?
Respectfully,
Bob
Jonathan,
Loved the review. Liked how the Khartago compared so favorable against the Soulution. Feels good. However after reading again, I started to feel the “good enough” statement and comparison take a slightly (though unintended) negative spin. OK, the Khartago is great, but how do I not know that other $1k amps aren’t also “good enough”. I would rather have seen you say that the Khartago easily beats (insert name here) and is the pick for anything at the price point. By making the comparison you did, a reader doesn’t know that a $1k amp from Rotel, NAD, Emotiva, etc aren’t also “good enough”. For that matter, a reader doesn’t know if a $10k amp from McIntosh, Classe, Bryston, Krell fall short of the Khartago performance. Name names please. Last, I seem to remember seeing the $$$ Soulution in the Recommended Components list. How is this possible if a $1k amp nearly reaches the same level of performance?
Respectfully,
Bob
Bob,
No diminution of the Khartago's status was intended by the title "Good Enough," which was a quote from Magico's Alon Wolf (who is persnickety when it comes to gear and who, when he calls something "good enough" for his speakers, is saying a lot). The Khartago is better than a Rotel, NAD, etc. It is, in fact, great. No, it is not Soulution 700-level great, but considering what it costs it comes closer to that ideal that any $995 amp I've ever heard. That's why I made the comparison to the very best--to show that the Khartago wasn't shamed, as most such amps are, by the company.
Jon
Sorry for the multiple posts. Computer / webpage was giving errors.
Thanks for the answer. Nice to hear confirmation from non-Odyssey owners who know good from bad (like you) that the products really are something special. Would love to hear your impressions of the Stratos Monos. I know you're limited on space in the magazine, but this bogs seems to be wide open : )
FYI, Odyssey now offers a higher tier line, called Kismet. While I haven't hear them, they're suppose to take things to the next level. The nice this about Odyssey is that if I ever get the itch, I can trade in my monos for a large % of original purchase price and apply to the Kismets. This limits the depreciation of any purchase....which is a significant factor to me. Otherwise I'd be much more likely to limit my purchases to used gear.
BTW, do you live in Cincinnati?
Thanks, Bob
Jon -
In your review of the Khartago, which I enjoyed very much, you wrote "...everything I say about the Khartago goes double for Odyssey's [Stratos] monoblocks". Is this a double entendre (because there are two monoblocks vs. a single stereo amp), or are you saying that the Stratos monoblocks are twice (double) as good as good as the Khartago?
I'm very interested in your impressions of the Stratos because you mention them in the Khartago review, and have also mentioned them in subsequent published comments (Editor's Choice, and the Buyer's Guide), so that leads me to believe you were impressed with them.
If you could, I'd appreciate it if you would elaborate a bit on the Stratos monos, both in absolute terms, and also compared to the upgraded Khartago you reviewed.
Thanks !
No offense to anyone, but I hope this is not another knee jerk response to Odyssey Khartagos like the super exciting praise for the Audio Tekne cables. The audio tekne cables $500/meter were compared to $20k wire from Tara. I had heard the stratos about 6 years ago and didn't think they were that fantastic.....they are good for the money but superlative I didn't think. May be they discovered something new now with the upgrades. I feel like recently there is too much emphasis of money $$$ in audio sound quality evaluations. What is the price of a specific gear is a huge deal these days rather than the sound. If its a mega buck component then wow it must be great....this idea actually does not work in favor of components that are evaluated like this. In fact you start to wonder if its a hobby of getting impressed with expensive/good looking toys rather than pure audio/music. I am frankly surprised that a $1000 amp could sound like a $40K amp...and if thats true who would be stupid enough to purchase that amp for the "little" difference in them? Too many reviewers these days are all over the place with the pricing and praise for different components that it decreases your trust in their review. If the best and great stuff keeps changing on monthly basis and there are products out there where $1K products are "almost" equal to $100K products.......It makes me wonder who to trust. The companies charging $100K must be out of their minds and I wonder how they sleep at night for this much fee for so little difference.
There is another group of reviewers like Chris Martens who consistently review cheap stuff and claim they are product of the years and beat other products many times its price. Him and others keep posting random new things to these blogs and the magazine making outrageous claims and not even interacting in the forums. I dont trust anything they say. Infact in the digital issue of 2009 he sings praises of USB devices and connections as high end. It's not high end. Another more respected reviewer in that same issues refutes that claim. No wonder Only the Very Very expensive companies give JV their products; very cheap companies give CM their products for obvious reasons. I would go by some people who are somewhat neutral like PS, JH, RH, and few others...; I am sorry if I offended JV and CM but reading TAS over the years.....its becoming a trend and I wanted to express my true concern here. I wish there were a mix of products being given to different reviewers.
People who actually own Khartago and Magico and are not reviewers would be a better insight or confermation to glowing reviews of not only this amp but many many other products that are good for the money but not "WONDER Products". I bought the oppo BDP 83 and its not all that hype it got from CM. Its good for the money but thats about all. What a waste of time and money even though its not expensive. JV should do a follow up review of the BDP83 in his system and CM should do a followup review of the solutions gear in some future issues. Stereophile does that frequently with their reviewers posting followups and multiple reviewers giving their input OPENLY positive or negative. Example: the origional reviewer of Wadia 170i transport put it in Class A and another reviewer thought otherwise and thought it was Class B. I think that gives a more fair perspective...that it was tested in different systems by different people relative to more than one great reference components. I know its expensive to do but not the $500 or less stuff. Have JV review the USB things and cheap CD/SACD players.....that would be interesting and informative. And give CM some more expensive stuff so he knows what Hi end can sound like.
Mr. Valin,
I think companies like Odyssey are to be commended for producing such high-value product, and it's great when the audio press brings them to our attention. The Stratos Extreme monos are on my short list of amps, as I'm considering a change later this year. I'll be looking forward to your review of them at some point. Now, I've even begun looking at the new Kismet line, though other than a rave on another forum, I've not yet found any info. Two e-mails to Odyssey have yet to receive replies.
With Odyssey amps in general, I've not found any signficant power consumption stats other than for idle status. Were there any such meaurements taken for the Khartago or Stratos? I don't remember seeing that in the review.
So has any one compared Emotiva vs Odyssey side by side with same speaker same room and so on.
Klaus is very pushy and bashes Emotiva !!!
I just took the plunge and ordered a Odyssey Stratos Extreme+++ stereo amp complete with dual power transformers, 180,000uf capacitance, upgraded parts, double thick boards (same as Symphonic), upgraded binding posts and wire, etc. I too am skeptical, as I am replacing my Classe' Audio 15 amp which I bought in 1998 for 2,995.00! Part of me tells me I am "nuts" for doing this, but another part of me tells me I am going to be very happy.
The bad part is that ever since the review in TAS, all Klaus's products are taking longer to make because they are backlogged with orders. I am looking at a 6 week wait minimum. I am one of these self gratification guys who will jump through hoops to get his equipment faster. In December, I drove from Providence, RI to Annapolis, MD and back home in the same day because I wanted my DeVore speakers before New Years. This wait will be a test of my endurance.
I will follow up on what I think about the amp once it has burned in and I have lots of listening hours on it. My rationale is if I don't like the amp, I will put the Classe back into my system and sell the amp on Audiogon for close to what I paid for it so I am really losing nothing other than my time.
Here’s a question: What stereo amp generates 130Wpc into 8 ohms, is abiding down to 2 ohms 70-662, has a bandwidth that extends to 400kHz, is able of 40 amp swings, has a damping agency greater than 500 and baloney beneath than 0.04%, runs in Class A and AB, uses around the aforementioned ambit as the Symphonic Line RG11 stereo amp from Germany 70-662 braindumps, and was recommended to me by none added than Magico’s Alon Wolf, who uses it (among added amps) in his branch to analysis speakers, including my accepted darlings—the M5s? Wolf has admission to every amp on earth—and has heard a lot of of the top contenders (heard added of them than I have). And while this accurate amount isn’t a part of the aristocratic (that would be Soulution, Spectral, and Boulder 70-663, according to W.), he considers it “good enough,” abnormally for the money, to float his boat(s). Oh, yeah, I forgot to acknowledgment the money a+ certification. The amp costs $800 ($995 in the ugraded adaptation I received).